Aug 27, 2024 Zoning Board

[OPENING STATEMENT]

[00:00:08]

TO THE MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP ZONING BOARD. MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP IN SOMERSET, NEW JERSEY. THIS IS OUR REGULAR MEETING SCHEDULED FOR AUGUST 27TH, 2024. THE TIME IS NOW 7:00 PM. UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT. NOTICE OF THE TIME AND PLACE OF THIS MEETING HAS BEEN POSTED AND SENT TO THE OFFICIALLY DESIGNATED NEWSPAPERS, MR. GALEN, CAN YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE? YES. BLODGETT HERE. ROSENTHAL HERE. ABU DHABI HERE. LAZOVSKY HERE.

BRUHNS HERE. WALLMARK HERE. WOOD HERE. URBANSKI. HERE. MEHTA DRILL HERE. CLAVELLI HERE.

BARTOLONI HERE. LOPEZ, HERE. SHRAEGER HERE. ALL RIGHT. CAN EVERYBODY RISE TO THE PLEDGE? PLEDGE? ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. GREAT. THANK YOU. AS WE DO HERE, WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP THE MEETING TO PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT I WILL REMIND EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE THAT THIS IS FOR COMMENT, FOR ITEMS THAT ARE NOT, ADDRESSED ON TODAY'S AGENDA, WE'LL RESTRICT ANYBODY'S Q&A TO THREE MINUTES. OR IS THERE ANYBODY THAT WISHES TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT, TO THE BOARD? NOPE, I SEE NONE. ALL RIGHT, FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS

[IV. RESOLUTION ]

[V. APPLICATIONS ]

[00:05:03]

AND BASED ON THAT, IT'S MY ADVICE TO THE BOARD TO CONSIDER THIS MATTER. CONCLUDED THE REQUEST TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN AND UNLESS MR. SHATZMAN THINKS WE SHOULD REOPEN IT, I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A GOOD EVENING, INCLUDING MR. SHATZMAN, PLEASE. YOU DON'T WANT TO REOPEN, BUT YOU WANT TO HAVE A GOOD EVENING. OKAY CAN YOU CAN YOU CAN YOU APPROACH THE LECTERN, PLEASE? I AGREE WITH MR. GILL THAT THE MATTER IS SETTLED. HE WITHDREW. DONE. LAURA DOESN'T HAVE TO HEAR ANYTHING RIGHT. IT'S THERE. AND THE RESOLUTION MEMORIALIZING THE APPROVAL STILL STANDS. FULL FORCE AND EFFECT. YEAH. STANDS.

HAVE A NICE NIGHT. GREAT OKAY. SO WE DON'T NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE ANY OF THAT. YEAH. GREAT ALRIGHT, GREAT. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. KIRBY. ALL RIGHT. THAT BRINGS US TO, THE NEXT APPLICATION, THE NEXT APPLICATION IS A CONTINUATION, BA TAK ZERO FOUR.

TAK TWO THREE, THE APPLICATION IS RENARD MANAGEMENT INCORPORATED BLOCK 29002. LOTS 49 AND FIVE ZERO. COMMONLY KNOWN AS 1026. COUNTY ROUTE 518. THIS IS A PRELIMINARY AND FINAL SITE PLAN WITH USE AND BULK VARIANCES TO CONSTRUCT ONE TWO STORY DRIVE UP SELF-STORAGE FACILITY, WHICH IS 22,846FT■!S, IS PROPOSED, AND ONE TWO STORY SELF STORAGE BUILDING, 84,904FT■!S WITH ASSOCIATED DRIVEWAYS, PARKING AREAS, LANDSCAPING, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS AND OTHER SITE IMPROVEMENTS. THE EXPIRATION DATE OF THE APPLICATION IS OCTOBER 31ST, 2024. AFFIDAVIT OF NOTIFICATION AND PUBLICATION AND WAS REQUIRED AND PREVIOUSLY FOUND TO BE IN ORDER. ALRIGHT. COUNCIL? YES. LET'S GET APPEARANCES. SURE. CHRIS MURPHY WITH THE LAW FIRM OF MURPHY, SCHILLER AND WILKES HERE ON BEHALF OF APPLICANT. AND ARE THERE ANY ATTORNEYS HERE ON BEHALF OF ANY PARTIES? LAST TIME ON JUNE 25TH, WE HAD ANDREW SCHRAGER APPEARING ON BEHALF OF MONT PENN LLC AS AN OBJECTOR. IS THAT STILL YOUR SCHRAGER APPEARING AGAIN ON BEHALF OF MONT PENN SC AND HILTON MANAGEMENT AS AN OBJECTOR. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MR. GRILL.

THANK YOU. GREAT. GOOD EVENING CHAIR. MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, CHRIS MURPHY WITH THE LAW FIRM MURPHY, SCHILLER AND WILKES HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, THIS IS OUR FOURTH HEARING BEFORE THIS BOARD, HAVING PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED TESTIMONY ON JANUARY 23RD, MARCH 28TH, JUNE 20TH, AND JUNE 25TH, TO DATE, WE HAVE OFFERED EXPERT TESTIMONY FROM OUR CIVIL ENGINEER, ARCHITECT, TRAFFIC ENGINEER, AND PLANNER, BEFORE WE BEGIN OUR TESTIMONY THIS EVENING, I WANTED TO PROVIDE A BRIEF REFRESHER, THIS PROJECT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AS A 150,000 SQUARE FOOT SELF STORAGE FACILITY. YOU GOT TO SLOW DOWN A LITTLE. NOT FOR THE COURT REPORTER. FOR ME. FOR YOU. OKAY. I YEAH, I DO, MY RESOLUTION'S NOT OFF.

TRANSCRIPT. I DO IT OFF MY NOTES I KNOW. OKAY, SO AS I WAS SAYING, AS A REFRESHER, THIS PROJECT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED AS A 150,000 SQUARE FOOT SELF STORAGE FACILITY CONSISTING OF ONE LARGER THREE STORY BUILDING AND ONE SMALLER BUILDING WITH DRIVE UP SERVICE DOORS, AFTER RECEIVING FEEDBACK FROM THE PLANNING STAFF, THE BUILDING SIZE WAS SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED.

IN ADDITION, THE HEIGHT OF THE LARGER BUILDING WAS REDUCED TO TWO STORIES, ELIMINATING THE NEED FOR A D6 HEIGHT VARIANCE, WE HAVE MADE ADDITIONAL CHANGES SINCE OUR FIRST HEARING IN JANUARY, INCLUDING THE ELIMINATION OF THE DRIVE UP DOORS ON THE SMALLER BUILDING.

YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR TESTIMONY TONIGHT ABOUT THAT, AS YOU KNOW, WE STILL ARE SEEKING D ONE USE VARIANCE RELIEF, ALONG WITH A D4 F.A.R. VARIANCE, WE'VE OFFERED TESTIMONY ON THIS RELIEF DURING PREVIOUS HEARINGS. AND WE'LL ALSO OFFER MORE THIS EVENING, TO SET THE STAGE FOR OUR TESTIMONY TONIGHT. WE PLAN ON INTRODUCING THREE WITNESSES. FIRST, OUR ARCHITECT, LOUIS VAN DELOUCHE, WHO'S ALREADY PRESENTED TO THIS BOARD, WILL PROVIDE TESTIMONY RELATED TO THE REDESIGN OF THE SMALLER BUILDING, WE WILL PRESENT UPDATED FLOOR PLANS AND ELEVATIONS, WE WILL ALSO PRESENT UPDATED RENDERINGS OF THE PROJECT, NEXT WE WILL HAVE OUR MARKET STUDY PRESENTED BY CHRISTOPHER OTTO AND CONNOR MONTFERRAT. OUR REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERTS, AND THEN LAST, WE WILL PUT UP OUR, OUR PLANNER AGAIN, TO CLOSE OUT OUR, OUR PRESENTATION, SO WITH THAT, WE DO HAVE OUR, ARCHITECT BACK HERE. HE IS, I BELIEVE, STILL UNDER OATH, MR. DRILL. THAT'S

[00:10:04]

MR. DRILL. YEAH. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. OKAY SO, LEWIS, IF YOU COULD PLEASE WALK THE BOARD THROUGH THESE FLOOR PLANS AND RENDERINGS. DESCRIBING THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE TO THE PROJECT SINCE OUR LAST HEARING. CERTAINLY, THE MAIN CHANGE THAT WE'VE MADE TO THE PROJECT IS REVOLVING AROUND THE SMALL BUILDING, IF YOU CAN SEE THE FLOOR PLAN, THERE, SHEET A 1.0 SHOWS THE LEFT HAND PLAN SHOWS THE FIRST FLOOR PLAN THAT SHOWS THE REMOVAL OF ALL THE OUTSIDE DOORS, WE ESSENTIALLY LEFT UNIT SIZES THE SAME, BUT THEY'RE ALL INTERIOR FACING NOW, SO THERE'S NO EXTERIOR OVERHEAD DOORS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING NOW, THE ONLY ENTRANCE DOORS ARE IN THE MAIN LOADING BAY. THEY'RE STILL LOCATED IN THE CENTER, WHERE THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN. THIS CHANGE DID CREATE A SMALL CHANGE IN THE NUMBER OF UNITS IN THE IN THE PROJECT. ORIGINALLY, THERE WERE 743 UNITS WERE NOW AT 739 UNITS, JUST SOME RECONFIGURATION ON THE INSIDE AS WE AS WE WORKED OURSELVES THROUGH THAT CHANGE ON THE OUTSIDE, IN TERMS OF THE LARGER BUILDING, THERE WERE NO CHANGES MADE TO THE LARGER BUILDING. IT STAYED AS IS PRESENTED AT THE LAST MEETING.

FLIPPING THEN TO OUR ELEVATIONS, THE FIRST ELEVATION I'LL SHOW IS THE SOUTH ELEVATION ON SHEET A 5.0. THIS SHOWS THE SMALL BUILDING AS WELL. SHOULD BE NO CHANGE FROM WHAT WE PREVIOUSLY HAD, FLIPPING THE SHEET 5.1. THIS SHOWS THE EAST ELEVATION AT THE VERY TOP. THAT IS THE ELEVATION THAT HAD THE OVERHEAD DOORS ON IT THAT HAS NOW BEEN, HOLD ON A SECOND. LET ME MAKE SURE I SAY THAT. CORRECT. MY APOLOGIES. IT'S SHEETS, A 5.2 EAST EAST ELEVATION, SHOWING THE SMALL BUILDING. SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING AT THAT ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THAT IS THE GLASS CAN DISPLAY WINDOWS. WE'VE ALWAYS HAD, THE AREA IN THE CENTER IS WHERE THE OVERHEAD DOORS WERE THAT WE CONTINUED THE SAME BUILDING FENESTRATION THROUGH. RIGHT IN THE CENTER IS THE LOADING BAY DOORS. AND THEN THE VERY END IS WHERE THE STAIR TOWER WOULD BE, ALL THE CHANGES TO THAT BUILDING REMAINED IS WHERE THEY WERE UNDER PREVIOUS EXHIBITS. AND THEN, MR. VANDERLEEST, YOU WE'RE IN RECEIPT OF, A LETTER FROM JAMES COVELLI, DATED AUGUST 22ND, TO SUPPLEMENT THE MARCH 26TH REPORT. YOU'VE REVIEWED THAT, THAT REPORT. I LOOKED AT IT THIS MORNING. OKAY GREAT, THEY DID TALK A BIT IN THE REPORT ABOUT SOME OF THE ARCHITECTURAL CHANGES, THE EXTERIOR, MAYBE SOME OF THE COLORING, CAN YOU WALK THE BOARD THROUGH THAT? CERTAINLY. THE COLORING. I BELIEVE IT GOES BACK TO SOME OF THE ORIGINAL COMMENTS. GETTING RID OF THE BLUES. ALL THAT STILL REMAINED OUT. WE'VE GONE WITH THE EARTHTONE COLORS FOR THE CANOPIES. I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE MAIN PIECE THAT THE BOARD ASKED TO BE CHANGED AT ONE POINT. SO ALL THAT HAS REMAINED. GREAT. AND THEN AS FAR AS THE EAST ELEVATIONS, AND THE DRIVE UP DOORS COMING OFF OF THAT IN A PREVIOUS, ITERATION OF THIS OF THIS ARCHITECTURAL PLAN, THERE WERE DRIVE UP DOORS ALONG THAT, ALONG THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING. CORRECT? CORRECT OKAY. AND THOSE NO LONGER EXIST. CORRECT. GREAT. THE, PLANNER DID ASK THAT WE TESTIFY ABOUT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF UNITS. UNIT COUNT. CAN YOU JUST GIVE SOME INSIGHT ON THAT? AND WHAT HAS CHANGED SINCE THE LAST, VERSION? CERTAINLY. SO WHAT'S CHANGED? ORIGINALLY, WE HAD 743 UNITS, I'M SLIDING BACK UP TO THE SMALL BUILDING NOW AS WE TOOK THE OVERHEAD DOORS OUT. IT GAVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO POSSIBLY RECONFIGURE SOME OF THE INTERIOR UNIT SPACES ON THAT. SO WE'VE GONE FROM 743 TOTAL UNITS OVER BOTH BUILDINGS TO 739. MINOR CHANGES TO UNIT SIZES. THE COUPLE GOT INTRODUCED WITH SOME OF THE ODD SPACES THAT INTERRUPTED THEMSELVES IN THERE, BUT OVERALL REDUCTION OF FOUR UNITS. DO YOU HAVE A CHART SOMEWHERE ON THOSE PLANS SHOWING THE UNIT COUNT? WE HAVE A UNIT MIX, WE HAVE A UNIT MIX THAT I CAN SUBMIT. YES. IS IT ON THE PLANS? I DON'T HAVE IT ON. IT'S NOT ON THE PLANS, BUT WE DO HAVE ONE THAT CAN BE SUBMITTED. OKAY MR. REYNOLDS, I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR EXHIBIT, BUT WE DO HAVE ANOTHER EXHIBIT. IF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE

[00:15:02]

WHAT IS THE DATE ON THIS? MR. VANDERLEEST, IT LOOKS TO BE EIGHT 2424. OKAY. 824. YOU HAVE PAPER COPIES OF THIS? YES I DID. CAN YOU? YES. WE CAN HAND THESE OUT TO THE BOARD IF YOU DON'T.

OKAY. SO WHAT'S UP ON THE SCREEN? YOU'RE. THAT'S THIS IS EXHIBIT A9. YES. OKAY. THAT'S AN ARCHITECTURAL RENDERING. YES. IT'S GOING TO BE. IT'S OKAY. OKAY SO THERE'S DIFFERENT LAYERS ON THIS THING. THERE'S MULTIPLE VIEWS OF THE OF THE PROJECT. OKAY THANK YOU. YEP.

OKAY. SO THIS IS THE LIKE THE KEY SHEET WHERE THE VIEWS ARE TAKEN FROM OKAY. SO IT'S NOT JUST AN ARCHITECTURAL RENDERING. IT'S ARCHITECTURAL RENDERINGS. PLURAL YES, SIR.

AND IT'S NOT DATED 824 BY MY APOLOGIES. DATE EIGHT EIGHT. I WAS LOOKING AT THE. WHAT WAS ON THE SCREEN JUST. OKAY LET'S GET THIS RIGHT. A9 ARCHITECTURAL RENDERINGS. WHAT'S THE DATE? EIGHT. EIGHT. 24. EIGHT. EIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. MR. VANDERLEEST, IF WE COULD WALK THE BOARD THROUGH THIS EXHIBIT. HOW MANY PAGES ARE IN THIS? ACTUALLY, HOLD ON A MINUTE, CHRIS. I'M JUST CURIOUS.

WHAT IS IT, YOU KNOW, TO THE FUNCTION OF THE BOARD IN THE FUTURE. THIS WAS DATED EIGHT, EIGHT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE JUST RECEIVING THIS. NOW, IS THERE IS THERE ANY REASON FOR THAT? IS THERE A PROCESS ON OUR SIDE THAT WE. NO, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION, SIR, DO WE HAVE. IS THIS UPDATED ONE A DIFFERENT DATE. THIS IS STILL A THIS IS JUST REDOING THE. ALL RIGHT, LET'S GET OUR THE ONE THAT WE'VE SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD TODAY AS AN EXHIBIT. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE A HARD COPIES OF THAT. IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT TIME WAS THIS THING EMAILED IN? THIS WAS EMAILED IN AT ABOUT 430 TODAY. OKAY, SO BUT THIS IS THE ONE THAT YOU PREPARED ON AUGUST 8TH. OR IS THE AUGUST 8TH DATE INCORRECT? THE AUGUST 8TH. WE PREPARED ON AUGUST 8TH, BUT WE FINALLY SUBMITTED IT TO THAT. SUBMITTED. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. AND TO. AND TO CONFIRM THERE WERE CHANGES THAT HAPPENED BETWEEN AUGUST 8TH, I BELIEVE, AND MY RENDERINGS UP RIGHT HERE. ANYTHING YOU'RE SAYING? CLEANING, CLEANING RENDERINGS UP. JUST GETTING PRESENTATION READY. YEAH. IT WASN'T FOR A LACK OF WANTING TO SUBMIT IT TO THE BOARD ON AUGUST 8TH THAT THIS DIDN'T GET IN.

IT'S JUST AN EXHIBIT. JUST TO POINT OUT A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PAPER COPY AND WHAT THERE IS. ABSOLUTELY. SO WE NEED TO. OKAY. CAN I CAN WE UNHOOK AND PLUG INTO THIS. CORRECT. YOU NEED TO WRITE UP ON THE SCREEN HAS TO BE WHAT YOU'RE SUBMITTING AS A9. I AGREE, WE HAVE IT RIGHT HERE. CAN WE PLUG IN THIS SOMEWHERE? YOU CAN TAKE THE HDMI OUT AND PLUG IT INTO. OKAY. THANK YOU. ONE SECOND. THERE WE GO. OKAY OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. OKAY. WE'RE LOOKING AT A9 HERE. ARCHITECTURAL RENDERINGS. IT LOOKS LIKE NINE PAGES. NINE PAGES, MR. VAN, CAN YOU WALK THE BOARD THROUGH THIS? CERTAINLY.

SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THIS FIRST SCREEN IS THE KEY PLAN. LOCATION PLAN? I'VE LOOKED AT IN THE PAST, JUST GIVE ME ONE MORE FAVOR. GO TO THE FRONT PAGE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S THE SAME TITLE PAGE. YEAH. OKAY, GOOD. SO THIS FIRST SHEET IS LOCATION PLAN. AGAIN, KIND OF GIVE A REFERENCE, PLAN SOUTH. THE WAWA IS ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE. THE SHOPPING CENTERS TO

[00:20:01]

PAGE THREE. VIEW TWO. THE NEXT SHEET IS PROBABLY WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS MOST OF OUR TIME ON. SO IT'S PAGE FOUR. VIEW THREE. THIS IS THE REVISED SMALL BUILDING. SHOWING THE REMOVAL OF THE DRIVE IN DOORS WITH THE, THE LOADING BAY AND THEN THE OFFICE MATCHING CORNER ON THE, ON THE SMALL BUILDING SIDE AND THEN THE SMALL ACCENT ON THE BACK SIDE. AND MR. VAN IS JUST TO CONFIRM THERE, THERE WERE ROLLING DOORS ON THAT SIDE. CORRECT. THERE WERE ROLLING DOORS ON THAT SIDE.

OKAY. AND THOSE HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED. CORRECT? OKAY. AND IN FACT, IF YOU LOOK AT MR. KELLY'S MEMO DATED AUGUST 22ND, IT WOULD SHOW THAT CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. ON PAGE THREE OF FOUR IN HIS MEMO. RIGHT. OKAY FLIPPING TO VIEW FOUR. PAGE FIVE JUST SHOWS THAT SAME VIEW SLIGHTLY DOWN THE STREET. LOOKING BACK, KIND OF FROM THE FROM THE SIDEWALK RIGHT BEHIND THE EXISTING TREES. AGAIN, THE WHOLE POINT IS KIND OF SHOWING THAT THE ROLL UP DOORS ARE GONE.

AND KIND OF WHAT THAT VIEW WOULD BE IS YOU'RE GOING WEST ON WASHINGTON. AND THEN THE LAST VIEW FIVE ON PAGE SIX SHOWS WHERE IT WOULD LOOK LIKE WITH THE, YOU KNOW, EXISTING TREES IN PLACE AND THE LANDSCAPING REMOVED OR INCLUDED IN THAT. THIS IS MORE PRICING, A LITTLE MORE OF THE LARGER BUILDING. THE SMALLER BUILDING, BUT IT'S A SIMILAR VIEW WE PRESENT IN THE PAST. WE WANTED TO MAINTAIN THE SAME TYPE OF VIEW LOOKS. GREAT. WE CAN GO TO THE COLORS. YEP.

AND THEN THE MATERIAL SHEETS IS SHEET SEVEN, THIS SHOWS THE MATERIAL COLORS WE'VE HAD. THESE HAVE NOT CHANGED FROM THE PREVIOUS SUBMISSIONS. AND THEN THE LAST PAGE IS THE CLOSING PAGE. GREAT. MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS. OKAY. SEE YOU BAC.

THERE. ALL RIGHT. SO. YEAH YEAH, WE'LL WE'LL WE'LL DO THE, THE PUBLIC. NOW, IF ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC HAS ANY QUESTIONS FOR, THIS WITNESS, PLEASE, COME FORWARD NOW, AND ASK FOR ANY CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, JUST REMIND AS YOU APPROACH, I'LL REMIND THIS IS FOR, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS TO CLARIFY TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN. THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO EXPRESS OPINIONS ABOUT THE PROJECT IN GENERAL. YOU WILL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY AT A LATER POINT. BUT AGAIN. WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT QUESTIONS AS THE FOOTPRINTS OF THE SMALLER BUILDING CHANGE IN ANY WAY. YOU KNOW, AS THE ROOF ANGLE OR ROOF SLOPE CHANGED IN ANY WAY. OKAY.

YOU DIDN'T INDICATE, YOU KNOW, PRIOR IN PRIOR TESTIMONY THERE WERE PARKING SPACES ALONG THE ALONG THE NEW NEW BUILDING OR THE SMALLER BUILDING, ARE THERE IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM THESE RENDERINGS WHETHER THERE ARE A PARKING SPACES ALONG THAT FRONT SIDE, NOW, NOW THAT THE ROLL UP DOORS ARE REMOVED, I DON'T BELIEVE WE JUST TO JUST TO CONFIRM. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT LOADING SPACES OR PARKING SPACES? EITHER. EITHER ONE. YOU HAD PARKING SPACES AND LOADING SPACES ALONG THAT. THAT WHAT I WOULD CALL THE EAST SIDE OF THE SMALLER BUILDING PRIOR TO THIS DESIGN CHANGE, HAS THE SITE PLAN CHANGED? NO, NO. OKAY, SO IF THE SITE PLAN HASN'T CHANGED AND CAN YOU JUST QUICKLY PUT THE SITE PLAN UP AND YOU'LL SEE AND THEN YOU CAN ASK THEM, ARE THOSE PARKING SPACES REMAINING WHERE THEY'RE SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN. AND HE'S GOING TO SAY YES, I ASSUME. OTHERWISE WE GOT TO GET THE ENGINEER. THAT'S MY POINT HERE. WE'D LIKE TO NOT DO THAT IF WE CAN HELP IT UP AGAINST THE ENGINEER. SITE UP. HERE, JUST TO CONFIRM, WE DON'T HAVE THE SITE.

[00:25:07]

I'M NOT GOING THERE. THE SITE PLAN HAS NOT CHANGED. WHAT WAS A LOADING ZONE? PUT IT UP ON THE SCREEN. HAVE HIM CONFIRM. WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SWEAR YOU IN. NO, THAT WE DON'T DO. YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S THE LATEST ONE. BUT THAT'S. OKAY SO THAT IS THE LATEST, I BELIEVE THAT'S EXHIBIT A5 COLOR RENDERING DATED MARCH 28TH. SO AS YOU CAN SEE, I MEAN, I CAN REFERENCE THE LOADING.

LET'S HAVE SOMEONE CONFIRM. SO CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT THIS IS A5, THE COLOR RENDERED SITE PLAN, THAT SMALL BUILDING HAS THAT SAME FOOTPRINT. YES. AND THE STRIPED NO PARKING AND THE STRIPED PARKING ARE GOING TO REMAIN LIKE THAT. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. YES THAT THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND THAT THAT RENDERED SITE PLAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN DATED MARCH 28TH, 2024. CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT, AND COULD YOU JUST REMIND US YOUR NAME AND THEN WHETHER YOU LIVE IN THE TOWNSHIP OR NOT? THE MONTGOMERY, CRESCENT AVENUE AND ROCKY HILL. ROCKY HILL, BACK TO THE OTHER. WHAT YOU HAD ON THE SCREEN BEFORE THIS? THE SECOND TO LAST WAS A FRONT ELEVATION WITH THE LANDSCAPING. IS.

THIS ONE? YES IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S. WHICH IS WHAT VIEW? THAT'S VIEW NUMBER FIVE. YEP. I'VE GOT IT READY FOR. DID I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY WHEN YOU SAID THAT SCALE OF THE BUILDING IS NOT ACCURATE IN THIS WITH THE LANDSCAPING? NO, I DIDN'T SAY THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING WAS NOT ACCURATE. THIS IS. THIS IS THE SAME VIEW THAT WE'VE USED IN THE PAST, PRESENTED IN THE PAST.

THE ONLY CHANGE TO THIS VIEW WOULD HAVE BEEN WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE OVERHEAD DOORS ON THE SMALL BUILDING. OKAY, SO THIS BUILDING IS EXACTLY THE SCALE OF THAT LANDSCAPE. YES. OKAY, GREAT. THANKS ANY QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT.

GREAT. BOARD PROFESSIONALS. JAMES, JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS REGARDING THE ROLL UP DOORS. DOES THE REMOVAL OF THE ROLL UP DOORS, CHANGE THE NATURE OF OR RESTRICT WHAT? ANY ITEMS THAT COULD BE STORED, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU COULD STORE A BOAT THERE PREVIOUSLY, DOES THIS REMOVE THE ABILITY FOR SOMEONE TO STORE A BOAT OR SOME KIND OF VEHICLE? DOES THIS CHANGE THE NATURE OF WHAT CAN BE STORED IN THE UNITS? I MEAN, ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT I CAN'T GET A BOAT OR A CAR INTO IT? NO. OKAY ALL RIGHT. GREAT.

SO THAT'S THANK YOU. AND THEN ARE THE PLANTINGS NOT THE MATURE EXISTING PIN OAKS, BUT THE ORNAMENTAL TREES. IS THAT THEM AT FULL MATURITY OR THEY'RE USUALLY FROM 50 TO 75% FULL MATURITY. USUALLY GETTING FULL MATURITY IS KIND OF HARD TO RENDER. SO WE USUALLY HIT ABOUT THAT 75% RANGE. OKAY GREAT. THANK YOU. THOSE ARE MY ONLY QUESTIONS. YOU GUYS HAVE TO TALK A LITTLE LOUDER. THEY DIDN'T HEAR YOUR ANSWER. I SAID THAT USUALLY WHAT WE RENDER THOSE HOURS ARE APPROXIMATELY 75% OF GROWTH TO ACCOUNT FOR, YOU KNOW, NATURE. TO CLARIFY, THE TREES THAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THE SCREEN ARE APPROXIMATELY 75% OF WHAT THEY COULD BE AT FULL MATURITY.

HOW MANY YEARS OUT. WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. THAT SCREEN. HOLD ON. NO ONE'S SHOUTING OUT QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC. THEY HAVE A QUESTION. YOU CAN COME UP, YOU RECOGNIZE AND ASK IT, BUT HOW MANY YEARS OF GROWTH DOES THIS RENDERED DRAWING SHOW OR ASSUME? USUALLY WE'RE ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO 10 YEARS OF GROWTH. OKAY SO THIS RENDERING SHOWS PLANTED TREES 5 TO 10 YEARS OUT. IS THAT

[00:30:03]

NOW GO BACK TO VIEW FIVE. AND AGAIN SHOW WHERE THE SMALLER BUILDING, THE BIGGER BUILDING WOULD END IN THE SMALLER BUILDING WOULD BEGIN WHERE I HAVE THE CURSOR. NOW IS THAT THE CORNER, THE OFFICE CORNER OF THE BIG BUILDING? YEP ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? YES.

YEAH, WITH REGARD TO, LIKE, MAKE SURE YOU'RE IN THAT MICROPHONE. I THINK I AM WITH REGARD TO THE EARLIER PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION, THE AUGUST 6TH SUBMISSION, THE LAST SHEET IS THE CROSS SECTION. SHEET YOU DIDN'T SPEND ANY TIME ON THAT. CAN YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT WHAT'S SHOWING THERE? HE MEANS THE LAST SHEET OF YOUR ARCHITECTURAL PLANS. DOES EVERYBODY HAVE THAT HARD COPY OF THAT? YEAH. YEAH, YES, IT WAS SUBMITTED. IT WAS SUBMITTED. BUT WHY DON'T YOU HAND OUT THE PAPER COPIES OF. SURE. YOU HAVE THE LARGE ONES HERE. THAT'S WHAT WAS HERE. YEAH. THESE ARE. HERE. YEP. IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN THIS? NO NO, IT'S THE SAME. BUT MY SUGGESTION IS THAT EVEN THOUGH THAT IS PART OF THE ARCHITECTURAL SET THAT WE ACTUALLY MARK THIS AS EXHIBIT 810, JUST SO IT'S EASIER TO COMPARE A8 TO A10. SO FOR THE RECORD, EXHIBIT A10 IS GOING TO BE ARCHITECTURAL SHEET 6.0 DATED. IT LOOKS LIKE AUGUST 6TH, 2024. YES. CORRECT. THAT THAT. AND AGAIN, THIS WAS INCLUDED IN THE ARCHITECTURAL PLANS THAT WERE SUBMITTED MORE THAN TEN DAYS BEFORE THE HEARING. AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT BE MARKED AS AN EXHIBIT. SO IT'S EASY TO COMPARE WITH A8, WHICH WAS THE, THE SIGHT LINES. AND THEN I ASSUME THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TESTIFY THAT ON A10, THEY ADDED SOME THINGS THAT THE BOARD REQUESTED TO BE ADDED TO IT. YES. AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE DID IS WE WENT THROUGH IN THIS SHEET, I'M GOING TO ACTUALLY PULL IT UP JUST SO I MISSPEAK HERE MYSELF. YEAH. THIS IS THIS IS THE SHEET THIS WAS WHAT WAS IN, I GUESS, THE A8 SET JUST FOR COMPARISON. AND THEN THE A10 SHEET THAT WE JUST GAVE YOU GUYS, THE ONLY TRUE DIFFERENCE WE HAVE HERE FROM THE PREVIOUS VERSIONS THAT WE SHOWED I WAS IT SHOWS THE EXISTING BUILD, THE CURRENT BUILDING ELEVATIONS. IT SHOWS THE OVERLAY OF WHERE THE PREVIOUS BUILDING WAS, EXISTING BUILDING AND THE KIND OF THE TONE, THE TAN TONE CROSSHATCH. IT STILL SHOWS WHERE THE ORIGINAL BUILDING SUBMISSION WAS WITH THE THREE STORY SHOWED OUT ON HERE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE ADDED TO THIS AND THE ONE OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE A8 AND THE A10 SHEET, IS THE SMALL LEGEND THAT WE ADDED DOWN IN THE LOWER CORNER TO INDICATE WHAT'S EXISTING TREES AND KIND OF A HALF TONE. AND THEN THE PROPOSED TREES THAT WE'RE ADDING AT THAT SAME 75% OF GROWTH IN THE COLOR TO MAKE THEM STAND OUT AND BE A LITTLE MORE PROMINENT. SO THE EXISTING TREES, AT LEAST ON OUR EXHIBIT, ARE LIKE GRAYISH. AND THE PROPOSED TREES ARE GREEN. CORRECT IN TERMS OF THE BUILDING ITSELF AND ALL THE LIGHTS AND WHATNOT, THEY'RE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE PREVIOUS SUBMISSION. SO I BELIEVE IT WAS MY REMARK.

YEAH. FOR THE RECORD. MEANING THAT WHAT WE CALL TAN ON EXHIBIT A8 LOOKS LIKE SALMON ON EXHIBIT A10, THAT WOULD REFLECT THE THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL, THE ORIGINAL BUILDING AND THE GRAY IS THE

[00:35:07]

THERE WE GO. SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE IS THAT PERSON IS APPROXIMATELY 50FT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TOWARDS THE HOUSE, WITH THE ELEVATION. NOTES BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE FOR FROM CIVIL, FOR TRUE ELEVATIONS AS THEY'RE STANDING THERE SO THAT PERSON'S 50FT FROM THE HOUSE AND CALL IT SIX FEET, 6.5FT ABOVE FINISHED FLOOR. AND THE LINE OF SIGHT YOU'RE SEEING IS WHERE THEY WOULD BE LOOKING OUT. YOU KNOW, TOWARDS TOWARDS THE BUILDING WHEN YOU'RE SAYING 50FT FROM THE HOUSE, YOU MEAN 50FT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, 50FT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TOWARDS THE HOUSE.

YEAH. AND IF THAT PERSON WAS STANDING ON THE SECOND FLOOR, WHAT WOULD THEY BE LOOKING AT? THEY'D BE LOOKING AT THE TOP OF THE PARAPET AND POTENTIALLY THE ROOF. POTENTIALLY, YES. SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE EXACT ELEVATION, EXACT HEIGHT OF THE HOUSE. SO WE KIND OF GOT WHAT WE GOT FROM GOOGLE EARTH AS BEST WE COULD. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE, FINISHED WITH THIS WITNESS. YEAH. THANK YOU. LEWIS. THANK YOU. OKAY OUR NEXT WITNESSES AR, REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERTS. COUNSEL. THESE WITNESSES HAVE NOT BEEN SWORN IN YET. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SWEAR HIM IN. YEP.

COMPARISON STATEMENTS. OKAY. SO THIS IS ONE WITNESS OR TWO WITNESSES. IT'S GOING TO BE TWO WITNESSES. OKAY, SO IT'S CHRISTOPHER OTTO. AND WHO ELSE? CONNOR. MONTFERRAT YOU FEEL THAT SLOWLY. CONNOR, CAN YOU SPELL YOUR NAME? SURE. MONTE. F AS IN FRANK. E R R A T E R R 1880.

ALFA TANGO. YOU NEED ONE. OKAY, SO LET'S HAVE MR. OTTO AND MR. HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE YOUR LAST NAME? MR. MONTFERRAT. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. CAN YOU BOTH RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? DO BOTH OF YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IN? THIS MATTER IS GOING TO BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. I DO. OKAY. OR ONE OF THEM TESTIFYING FIRST AND THE SECOND ONE. OR THERE'S GOING TO BE TAG TEAM. TAG TEAM. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE TAG TEAM, BUT MOST. HELLO, BOARD. HOW ARE YOU? MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER OTTO. INTO THE MICROPHONE. OH, SORRY.

I APOLOGIZE. MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER OTTO. I'M A MANAGING PARTNER OF OTTO GROUP, MR. MONTFERRAT IS GOING TO BE GIVING MAJORITY OF THE TESTIMONY. HE IS A SENIOR MEMBER OF THE FIRM. I AM JUST HERE AS. I GUESS AS YOU SAID, TAG TEAM, IN CASE ANY OF THE QUESTIONS COME UP, I HAVE MANY YEARS WITH MANY BOARDS SERVING MANY BOARDS AND SPEAKING IN FRONT OF MANY BOARDS. MR. MANFRED IS FULLY QUALIFIED AND IS QUALIFIED IN FRONT OF MANY BOARDS HIMSELF AS WELL. SO WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO GET THESE GUYS QUALIFIED IN WHATEVER FIELD IT IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO QUALIFY? SURE. LET'S LET'S CHRISTOPHER. LET'S LET'S START WITH YOU AS AS A MARKET, REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERT, PLEASE PROVIDE THE BOARD WITH YOUR CREDENTIALS. EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND. SO YOU'RE PROPOSING HIM AS A REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERT, CORRECT? CHRISTOPHER, TWO, GRADUATE OF RUTGERS UNIVERSITY, I AM I HOLD THE M.A. DESIGNATION WITH THE APPRAISAL INSTITUTE, ALONG WITH OTHER VARIOUS DEGREES IN REAL ESTATE AND ADJUNCT PROFESSOR. SLOW SLOW. SLOW. M A I IS WHAT M I IS THE NAME OF THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF EDUCATION YOU CAN RECEIVE IN

[00:40:07]

YES, SIR. HOWEVER YEAH. PROBABLY I CAN GET YOU A FULL LIST, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF MUNICIPALITIES THAT WE REPRESENT. OTHER THAN AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERTISE FOR MUNICIPALITIES, WE ARE CURRENTLY REPRESENTING EAST RUTHERFORD, CURRENTLY REPRESENTING EAST RUTHERFORD IN A CASE OF VIABILITY OF A SELF-STORAGE FACILITY WHERE WE PERFORMED THE MARKET ANALYSIS AS WHAT THE IDEAL BUILDING SIZE SHOULD BE, AND IF THERE IS DEMAND FOR THAT USE IN THAT LOCATION. EAST RUTHERFORD HAS HIRED YOU, NOT THE SELF-STORAGE APPLICANT, IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY. WE REPRESENT I THINK I'VE PROBABLY DONE OVER FIVE, MAYBE 300 CASES FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, ON ALL OF THEIR CONDEMNATION CASES AND REPRESENTING THEM AS A REAL ESTATE EXPERT. DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS? AND. YEAH. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON HIS QUALIFICATIONS? AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEY'RE PROPOSING HIM AS A REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERT, NOT AS AN APPRAISER. HE'S NOT APPRAISING ANYTHING, BUT HE'S GOING TO BE RENDERING AN OPINION UNDER, ON THE DEMAND FOR SELF-STORAGE USE AT THIS SITE, I ASSUME. YES, THAT'S CORRECT, SIR. I JUST HAVE. SO WHO IS HE WORKING FOR? HIS COMPANY IS. SO IDENTIFY YOURSELF, PLEASE. ERIC 179 WASHINGTON STREET, ROCKY HILL. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I KNEW WHO YOU WERE ACTUALLY WORKING FOR. YOU'RE WORKING FOR THIS COMPANY? THE APPLICANT. SO YOU'RE RIGHT. THE BOARD, THE MUNICIPALITY HERE. AND THE BOARD HAS NOT HIRED YOU. CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. WE'RE WORKING FOR THE APPLICANT IN THIS CASE. YEAH. AND, JUST AND JUST FOR. SO

[00:45:02]

ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS QUALIFICATIONS? ALL RIGHT. WE'LL ACCEPT YOU AS AN EXPERT. THANKS.

APPRECIATE THAT. REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERT. OKAY. YEAH GREAT. WE DO HAVE, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE A SUMMARY MARKET STUDY SUMMARY THAT WE SENT IN, THAT WAS SENT IN AT 430 TODAY. WE CAN MARK THIS AS AN EXHIBIT. YEAH. CAN I HAND THIS OUT TO THE BOARD? YEP. OKAY. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YEAH. YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A BRIEF SUMMARY WITH. ANY MORE INFORMATION? ON THIS, YOU KNOW.

I AGREE. THIS IS WHERE WE START. OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO MARK. THIS IS A LETTER FROM THE AUTO GROUP DATED AUGUST 27, 2024. AND IT IS. AND I'M JUST READING FROM THE FIRST SENTENCE. IT'S I'M PARAPHRASING. IT'S AN ANALYSIS FOR THE ABOVE REFERENCED PROPERTY, WHICH IS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY TONIGHT, WHICH IS PROPOSED FOR SELF-STORAGE DEVELOPMENT. SO WE'RE GOING TO CALL IT A WHAT. A REAL ESTATE MARKET ANALYSIS. THIS IS A SUMMARY OF A LARGER STUDY. SO WE WANTED TO BRING FORTH A SUMMARY LETTER, SO IT WOULD BE EASIER TO GO THROUGH SOME KEY POINTS IN CASE SOMEONE ASKS TO SEE THE LARGER STUDY. DO YOU HAVE THAT WITH YOU. NO, SIR. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE AN ELECTRONIC VERSION OF THAT WITH YOU, NO. WE DON'T. EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IS IN THIS DOCUMENT. IN THIS SUMMARY. YES. CORRECT. OKAY. BUT IF SOMEONE WANTED TO SEE THAT THAT'S NOT ON THESE PAGES. I UNDERSTAND, BUT IF SOMEONE WANTED TO SEE SOME OF THE UNDERLYING DATA, YOU'D HAVE TO SUBMIT IT. I ASSUME. YES. OKAY. SO THIS IS A11. OKAY. MR. OTTO, IF YOU WANT TO START. DO YOU WANT TO START? CONNOR CONNOR. CONNOR. GO AHEAD. YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY BEEN PART OF THIS PROJECT FOR QUITE SOME TIME. YOU DID A MARKET STUDY RELATED TO THE DEMAND OF THIS USE AT THIS PARTICULAR SITE. CAN YOU PLEASE PRESENT THE PRESENT THE BOARD, WITH YOUR FINDINGS? ABSOLUTELY. WE WERE TASKED WITH UNDERSTANDING THE SELF STORAGE USE ONLY ON THIS PROPERTY, TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE ECONOMIC DRIVERS

[00:50:05]

WHICH PAGE ARE YOU ON? THIS IS ME TELLING YOU A SUMMARY. OKAY. ARE WE GOING TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING NOW? WE'RE ALSO GOING TO FIND THAT IN HERE. YES, YOU ARE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF PAGE TWO, RIGHT AFTER THE FRONT LETTER. OKAY ANOTHER KEY DEMAND DRIVER. RIGHT NOW IS THE ELEVATED INTEREST RATES IN THE MARKET. THAT IS PUTTING BUYERS ON THE SIDELINES AND SHIFTING AGAIN TOWARD APARTMENTS AND SMALLER HOUSING. IN THE INTERIM FOR LIVING SPACE. JOB GROWTH HAS ALSO BEEN EXTRAORDINARY. AND THAT IS A HUGE DEMAND DRIVER FOR NEW HOUSING. AND AS A RESULT, NEW SELF-STORAGE USE. BUT THE LARGEST DEMAND DRIVER IS YOUR EXISTING POPULATION AND THE HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE CURRENTLY WITHIN THE MARKET. WITHIN THE FIVE MILES YOU HAVE 4300 APARTMENTS, YOU HAVE A POPULATION OF 83,000. BOTH OF THOSE FACTORS EXCEED INDUSTRY STANDARDS FOR A NEW FACILITY, BUT BEFORE ANALYZING WHETHER A NEW FACILITY WILL DO WELL, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE EXISTING SUPPLY IS LIKE AND THE EXISTING SUPPLY ONLY HAS FOUR FACILITIES WITHIN FIVE MILES. AND THE PROPOSED BUILDING WILL STILL BE BELOW THE INDUSTRY STANDARD OF AN OCCUPIED HOUSEHOLD PER SQUARE FEET OF SELF STORAGE SPACE TAKEN THROUGH THE LIMITS, THE NATIONAL STANDARD FOR SELF STORAGE IS SEVEN FEET PER PERSON. FOR REFERENCE, NEW YORK CITY'S 3.5FT PER PERSON, WHILE HOUSTON, TEXAS, IS TEN FEET PER PERSON.

IN NEW JERSEY, THAT SEVEN FOOT IS A LITTLE LOWER. IT'S LIKE 6.8, BUT IN THIS MARKET IT'S AROUND 4.2. SO THERE'S PLENTY OF ABILITY FOR THE MARKET TO ABSORB NEW SELF-STORAGE SPACE. WHAT IS 4.2? THAT'S THE EXISTING 4.2FT PER PERSON. IS CURRENTLY OCCUPIED AND IN THE MARKET. SO THAT'S BASED ON 83,500 PEOPLE. IS THAT BASED ON THE FOR THE FOUR FACILITIES WITHIN FIVE MILES. SO 4.2FT PER PERSON OF SHELF STORAGE SPACE IS AVAILABLE IN THE FOUR FACILITY WITHIN FIVE MILES OF THE OF THE PROPERTY. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY AND THE EXISTING SUPPLY IS 4.2FT PER PERSON. AND WITH THE INCLUSION OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY'S PROPOSED SQUARE FEET, WHICH WE WERE USING, THE 107,000FT■!S. Y. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THAT INCREASES THE TOTAL PER SQUARE FOOT OCCUPIED TO 5.5FT■!S, WHICH IS STILL BELOW THE STATE AVERAGE AND BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

SO THE MARKET HAS THE ABILITY TO ABSORB THIS SELF STORAGE SPACE. AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE ON PAGE THREE UNDER MARKET CONCLUSION, IS THAT BETWEEN 151,000 AND 318,000FT■!S OF SELF STORAGE IS UNDER SUPPLIED WITHIN THE LOCAL MARKET, IS THAT THAT'S HOW YOU GET TO THAT CONCLUSION.

THAT'S ACCURATE. YES, I WAS GOING TO GET TO THAT NEXT. AND THAT'S TO SHOW THAT EVEN ON THE LOWER LIMIT, AT SIX FEET PER PERSON, IT'S 151,000. AND THE FACILITY THAT IS BEING PROPOSED TO IN FRONT OF YOU TONIGHT IS STILL LESS THAN EVEN THAT SIZE. GREAT. WHY DON'T WE MOVE ON TO THE F A R ANALYSIS THAT YOU DID? SURE SO IN IN ANALYZING THE PROPOSED FACILITY, WE NOTED THAT

[00:55:05]

OKAY, SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, CAN YOU WHAT ARE THOSE FOUR R'S. AND DON'T SAY POINT. SAY WHAT PERCENT. YEAH. PRINCETON SELF STORAGE IS 16%. LIFE STORAGE IN SOUTH BRUNSWICK IS 46% METRO SELF STORAGE IN MONMOUTH JUNCTION IS 9%. AND EXTRA SPACE IN HILLSBORO IS 13%. CAN YOU ALSO IN THAT CHART, I ASSUME BECAUSE THERE'S A LARGE NUMBER, YOU HAVE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE FACILITY AND YOU HAVE THE LOT AREA? I ASSUME? YES. AND THOSE WERE VERIFIED WITH THE MUNICIPAL ASSESSORS AND WITH PUBLIC TAX RECORDS. OKAY. SO KEEP KEEP ON GOING. SO SURE, IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THOSE FOUR FACILITIES SHOWN IN THE CHART ON THE TOP OF PAGE THREE HAVE AN FAR RANGING FROM 9% TO 46%. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S ACCURATE. OKAY. AND THEY HAVE LOT SIZES THAT RANGE FROM FIVE AND A HALF ACRES TO 22 ACRES. SO AND WHEN WE PICKED THAT OUT AND WE NOTICED THAT WE HAD TO TAKE A LARGER LOOK AT THE BROADER MARKET TO UNDERSTAND HOW FAR OF NEW FACILITIES, BECAUSE THIS LOCATION IS UNIQUE, BECAUSE IT'S ONLY THREE ACRES IN SIZE. SO IT'S SMALLER THAN ALL THOSE OTHER PROPERTIES. AND WHEN LOOKING AT 197 FACILITIES OF NEW CONSTRUCTION, SELF STORAGE IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, WE HAD A LOOK AT THEIR F.A.R. AND AS EVERY I BEFORE I EVEN CONTINUE. DOES EVERYONE KNOW THE BASIC FORMULA FOR F A R? WELL, I DO, BUT WHY DON'T YOU JUST JUST DO IT TO ME? BECAUSE OTHERWISE I'M SPEAKING. YEAH. IT'S LIKE SPEAKING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE. SOMEONE MIGHT BE EMBARRASSED IF THEY SAY I DON'T KNOW, SO JUST GIVE IT TO THEM. F A R IS BUILDING SQUARE FEET OVER YOUR LOT. SQUARE FEET OR YOUR LAND? SQUARE FEET. SO TO UNDERSTAND YOUR FA, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW MANY ACRES YOU'RE DEALING WITH AND THE SIZE AND THE FLOOR AREA AND THE FLOOR AREA OF YOUR BUILDING. SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE DATA SET ON THE TOP OF PAGE THREE AND YOU LOOK AT THOSE FOUR BUILDINGS THAT YOU'RE COMPARING THIS TO, AND YOU LOOK AT THE FA AND YOU SAY TO YOURSELF, THEY'RE ALL LOWER IN FA THAN THIS BUILDING. YOU THEN LOOK AT A BROADER RANGE OF DATA THROUGHOUT THE STATE, SO YOU CAN COMPARE BUILDINGS ON SITE, ON SITES THAT ARE LESS THAN A CERTAIN ACREAGE VERSUS SITES THAT ARE OVER A CERTAIN ACREAGE. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. BECAUSE NOT ONE FACILITY IN THE MARKET IS LIKE US. THEY MAY BE OF SIMILAR USE, BUT THEY'RE NOT LIKE US. WHERE IN HERE DOES IT SHOW? I SEE THIS BOX ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE THREE. I ASSUME THAT'S THE BOX THAT HAS TAKEN VARIOUS FACILITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE. 197 AND YOU'VE PLUGGED IN THE SIZE OF THE FACILITIES, THE FLOOR AREAS OF THE FACILITIES AGAINST THE SIZE OF THE LOTS. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. AND SO WHAT HAVE YOU COME UP WITH? I MEAN, I SEE IT, BUT WHAT FOR THE RECORD, WHAT ARE YOU WHAT HAVE YOU COME UP WITH, WE FIGURED OUT THAT THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE OF A NEW CONSTRUCTION SELF-STORAGE FACILITY IN NEW JERSEY BUILT AFTER 2000. SO THE LAST 25 YEARS IS BUILT ON A FIVE ACRE PROPERTY. AND FOR PROPERTIES THAT ARE MORE THAN FIVE ACRES, THE F.A.R. IS 21%. AND FOR PROPERTIES THAT ARE UNDER FIVE ACRES, LIKE OUR PROPERTY, THE F.A.R IS 105%. OKAY, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. THE FACILITIES THAT ARE ON LOTS UNDER FIVE ACRES. DO

[01:00:05]

BUT YOU'RE GIVING THIS NEW JERSEY AVERAGE ON THE BOTTOM. I WAS HOPING YOU'D GIVE THE AVERAGE FOR FACILITIES IN URBAN AREAS VERSUS SUBURBAN AREAS, SUCH AS MONTGOMERY, TO TRY TO DO AN APPLES TO APPLES. I MEAN, ARE YOU SAYING THAT MR. VAN CAMP IS GOING TO DO THAT, HE HAS DATA ON INDIVIDUAL FACILITIES. YEAH, BUT DOES HE HAVE THE DATA? THE UNDERLYING DATA THAT YOU USED TO PUT THIS REPORT TOGETHER, OR DOES HE HAVE HIS OWN DATA? NO. SO IF I COULD STEP IN, MR. OTTO, IF WE COULD, WOULD WE BE ABLE TO? OKAY. ARE YOU ABLE TO DO IT NOW? NO, NOT. NOT AS I SIT HERE.

NO. OKAY ALL RIGHT. HERE'S WHAT IT IS. OKAY. AND I JUST WANTED TO ADD TO THAT IT CAN BE VERY SUBJECTIVE. SUBURBAN, RURAL, URBAN. I'M JUST GOING TO PUT THAT OUT THERE. WELL, PUT IT THIS WAY. I KNOW THERE'S A BUNCH OF SELF-STORAGE FACILITIES IN NEWARK AND ELIZABETH AND HILLSIDE. OKAY. BECAUSE IF YOU DRIVE ALONG 78, YOU SEE THEM ALL ON THE WAY TO THE NEWARK AIRPORT. SO I WOULD TERM THEM AS URBAN. AND I'M WONDERING, I AGAIN, I HAVE NO IDEA. BUT JUST BY EYEBALLING IT UP AND BEING A LAND USE ATTORNEY, MY GUESS IS THOSE LOT SIZES ARE LESS THAN FIVE ACRES. AND I'VE SEEN SELF-STORAGE FACILITIES AND SOME OF MY OTHER CLIENT BOARDS HAVE APPROVED. AND IN CLINTON TOWNSHIP, TEN ACRES, RARITAN TOWNSHIP, SEVEN ACRES. RIGHT.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE WOULD BE MORE COMPARABLE TO MONTGOMERY. I'D CALL THEM SUBURBAN OR RURAL. THAT'S BUT I BELIEVE ME, I AM NOT A REAL ESTATE MARKET EXPERT, AND I'M NOT A SELF-STORAGE EXPERT. I'M A LAND USE ATTORNEY, THOUGH, AND I'M TRYING TO DO APPLES TO APPLES TO GET A FEEL FOR FAR BEFORE MR. VAN CAMP TESTIFIES, BECAUSE HIS TESTIMONY, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD BE BASED ON YOUR DATA. IF HE STARTS TO TESTIFY IN HIS OWN DATA, THEN WHAT HAVE WE DONE HERE? I THOUGHT THAT HE'D BE. YOU'RE SETTING THE STAGE FOR HIM TO TESTIFY. WELL, WE ARE IN PROVIDING THE MACRO, BUT ALL OF OUR NUMBERS WILL INCLUDE HIS DATA. HE JUST BROKE IT OUT INDIVIDUALLY. SO ALL THE FACILITIES THAT HE'S GOING TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT ARE ALL INCLUDED IN OUR DATA. I UNDERSTAND, ALL WITHIN OUR NUMBERS. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE. YES. IS IT IS IT THE CHART THAT YOU HAVE ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE THREE? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT CHART. URBAN AREAS. WHEN YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEFINE IT VERSUS SUBURBAN AND RURAL AREAS, AND I'M SURE WE'LL GET A GOOD DATA SET. THERE'S 105 PROPERTIES YOU LOOKED AT. THERE'S NOT 105 197. THERE'S NOT, EXCUSE ME, 197 SELF-STORAGE FACILITIES IN NEWARK. ELIZABETH. AND YOU KNOW LINDEN, BUT WE YOU KNOW. BUT YES, I'M SURE THERE'S SOME THAT ARE UNDER FIVE ACRES OR FIVE ACRES OR UNDER IN SUBURBIA. I WOULD JUST I THINK THAT'S THE WAY TO HAVE THE BOARD SEE APPLES TO APPLES. THEN YOU HAVE MR. VAN CAMP AS YOUR, YOU KNOW, CLEANUP BATTER AS MOST PLANNERS ARE.

THEN YOU HAVE HIM TESTIFY. BUT THAT'S JUST HOW I WOULD DO IT. YOU CAN CALL THEM BEFOREHAND, BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU. ANYWAY, KEEP ON GOING WITH YOUR REPORT BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY ON. OH, THE REST OF THE REPORT IS ALL YOUR QUALIFICATIONS. THAT'S RIGHT SIR. OKAY. BECAUSE THE END OF OUR ANALYSIS ALSO SHOWS THAT THE F.A.R IS SUPPORTED REASONABLY WITH IT'S IN WITHIN THAT MARKET RANGE. IT'S ACTUALLY BELOW THAT FIVE ACRE MARK. RIGHT RIGHT. ON THE NEW JERSEY AVERAGE. YES.

WHICH INCLUDES URBAN AND SUBURBAN AND RURAL AREAS AND DOESN'T DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THEM. SO WE DON'T KNOW. RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND I CAN MORE THAN BE HAPPY TO SUPPLY THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DOES THAT CONCLUDE YOUR, YOUR WITNESS TESTIMONY? YEAH.

[01:05:04]

RIGHT. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, MR. VAN CAMP TO DO THAT, HE EITHER GOT THE DATA HIMSELF OR HE GOT THE DATA FROM, NOT FROM THE SUMMARY. HE GOT IT FROM THE UNDERLYING STUDY THAT YOU'VE DONE THAT YOU HAVEN'T SUBMITTED. SO FOR HIS OPINION, IF HIS OPINION IS GOING TO BE BASED ON THE STUDY THAT YOU'VE DONE, I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD. YEAH. LET US TALK FOR FIVE MINUTES. LET US TALK FOR WHAT? SHOULD HAVE THAT UNDERLYING DATA TO SEE WHAT HE'S LOOKING AT. OTHERWISE HE'S GOING TO GET KILLED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION. YEAH. LET'S LET'S TAKE FIVE MINUTES. LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE WE CAN GET YOU. I APPRECIATE YOU POINTING THAT OUT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, SO YOU'RE REQUESTING FIVE MINUTES. ALL RIGHT.. OKAY ALL RIGHT. YOU READY, MA'AM? NO, NO. THANK YOU SO MUCH. GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. WE. I CONFER WITH MY TEAM, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE OUR TESTIMONY TONIGHT, I DO WANT TO CLARIFY THE DATA. THAT'S BEING USED IN THIS MARKET STUDY. IS NOT THE ONLY DATA UPON WHICH OUR PLANNER IS GOING TO TESTIFY, WE HAVE FURTHER DATA THAT THAT WILL BE INTRODUCED, THAT WE WILL TESTIFY TO AS IT RELATES TO FAR. I WILL POINT OUT THAT THE MARKET STUDY, WHILE IT DID ANALYZE FAR, IT WAS DOING SO IN A MORE AS CHRISTOPHER OTTO SAID, A MORE MACRO WAY WHERE WE WERE LOOKING AT FAR AND DEMAND THROUGHOUT THE STATE, THEIR ANALYSIS AND THEIR CONCLUSION IS THAT THERE IS A DEMAND IN THIS AREA AND THERE'S A DEMAND AT THIS IN THIS TOWN FOR SELF-STORAGE, AND THIS SITE IS SUITABLE FOR THAT, THAT USE THAT, THAT WAS THERE. WHOA WHOA WHOA. THEY ABSOLUTELY CONCLUDED THERE WAS A DEMAND. THEY CONCLUDED THAT THE SITE WAS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS USE OF REAL ESTATE, MARKET EXPERT TESTIFIED.

HE CONCLUDED THAT THE SITE WAS APPROPRIATE FOR THE USE. THAT'S FOR THE PLANNER. THAT'S NOT FOR A REAL ESTATE MARKET. SORRY. CRANE CAMP IS GOING TO TESTIFY THAT THIS SITE IS PARTICULARLY SUITABLE FOR THIS USE. OKAY BUT THEY ALSO HAVE AN FA ANALYSIS ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE THREE. YES.

AND THEY DID AN FA ANALYSIS FOR THE ENTIRE STATE. THEY DIDN'T BREAK IT OUT TO RURAL AND SUBURBAN AREAS LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE LIKED. AND IF YOU WERE THE LAND USE ATTORNEY, YOU MIGHT HAVE TOLD THEM TO DO THAT. PUT IT THIS WAY. LET ME LET'S ASK THE BOARD. ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE FA ANALYSIS? BASED ON THE 197 SITES NOT BROKEN OUT BETWEEN URBAN VERSUS SUBURBAN AREAS, OR DO YOU WANT TO SEE A BREAKOUT OF THE FA ANALYSIS OF THE 197 SITES, LIKE A SPREADSHEET, SO EVERYONE CAN SEE THE SITES AND ANALYZE IT BETWEEN URBAN AND SUBURBAN? I LOOK, I'LL SPEAK, I'LL SPEAK FOR THE BOARD. REALLY, BECAUSE I THINK WE DO NEED AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON FOR TOWNS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO OURS, BECAUSE I THINK LOBBED INTO THIS ANALYSIS, YOU KNOW, ALL THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, INCREDIBLY WONDERFUL AREAS TO LIVE THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY COMPARE OUR TOWN TO NEWARK. JERSEY CITY AND BAYONNE. RIGHT AND WHERE I WOULD PRESUME MOST OF THESE PROPERTIES PROBABLY FALL INTO, I THINK, 197 MISTER CHAIR FALL INTO THOSE. BUT YES, I UNDERSTAND I PRESUME A LOT OF THEM DO, A LOT OF THEM DO. AND SO I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S A REALLY A FAIR ASSESSMENT TO, TO, TO JUSTIFY THIS, THIS FAR IN MY OPINION WITHOUT THAT DATA. SURE.

WELL MAYBE THE PLANNERS DATA WILL CLARIFY IT. MAYBE MAYBE IT WILL. IF NOT, WE'LL WE CAN CERTAINLY SUBMIT FURTHER DATA, PARSING OUT THE SUBURBAN VERSUS RURAL TOWNS. BEFORE WE GET TO THE PLANNER. DOES THE BOARD THIS IS JUST ME. I DON'T YEAH. NO, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FOR SIMILAR SIZED POPULATION TO SEE IF THEY'D LIKE TO SEE. THEY'D LIKE TO SEE THE 197 SITES ON A SPREADSHEET SO EVERYONE KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE. AND THEN DO AN FA ANALYSIS OF LOTS ABOVE FIVE ACRES AND UNDER FIVE ACRES FOR URBAN VERSUS SUBURBAN AREAS. THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE. I SUGGEST YOU STRAW POLL I AGREE. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU MIKE. YEAH OKAY I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT. YEAH.

GREAT. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT ALSO. YOU HEARD WHAT THE BOARD. THAT'S UP TO YOU. YEAH. AND LISTEN THEY'RE NOT DIRECTING YOU TO DO ANYTHING. UNDERSTOOD SO YOU GET THEIR SENSE. IT'S NOT ME. YEAH

[01:10:05]

GREAT AND ARE YOU READY TO DO THAT NOW? YES. WE'RE WE'RE DONE. ALL RIGHT. SO I'D LIKE TO OPEN CROSS-EXAMINATION UP TO THE PUBLIC, PLEASE. AND THIS IS EITHER OR BOTH OF THEM. JUST DIRECT YOUR QUESTIONS SO THEY KNOW WHICH OF THEM IS GOING TO ANSWER EITHER ONE. GOOD EVENING, GENTLEMEN. AGAIN FOR THE RECORD, ANDREW SCHRAGER, ON BEHALF OF VERMONT, JUST A FEW MINOR MINOR QUESTIONS. YOU STATED IN YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THERE'S A SHIFT TO SMALLER LIVING SPACES, WHICH YOU DIDN'T. AND ANALYZE, OR DID YOU ANALYZE MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP ITSELF? OKAY. WHO ARE YOU ASKING THE QUESTION TO? EITHER ONE. AND IN ESSENCE, IT WAS IT WAS MY TESTIMONY. SEE, IT, I DID MENTION IN MY TESTIMONY THIS EVENING ABOUT SMALLER LIVING SPACES. YES. AND I'VE ABSOLUTELY ANALYZED MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP. DID YOU SPECIFY IT? HAS THERE BEEN A SHIFT IN MONTGOMERY IN TO SMALLER LIVING SPACES IN MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP? YES OKAY. THOSE FORMS OF HOUSING INCLUDE APARTMENTS AND TOWNHOMES. DID YOU DO ANY PHONE SURVEYS OR OR MARKETING SURVEYS OF THE CITIZENS? IN OTHER WORDS, HOW DID YOU GET YOUR DATA? THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING. IT'S THE SAME KIND OF THING, SO WE GET OUR DATA FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES, WE HAVE AN IN-HOUSE RESEARCH TEAM.

WE CALL, YOU KNOW, AND DEAL WIT, BROKERS, REAL ESTATE AGENTS. WE HAVE ONE OF THE LARGEST REAL ESTATE APPRAISAL. I MEAN, A BROKER CLASSES THAT WE OFFER THAT ALL OF THE BROKERS IN NEW JERSEY, ALL PARTICIPATE WITH US, SO WE REACH OUT TO OUR NETWORK TO GET FEEDBACK AND FEELING, WE ALSO PURCHASED, WHICH IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY, THE USPS POSTAL DATA. SO ANYTIME SOMEBODY MOVES AND YOU DO A MOVE FORWARD, ADDRESS IT REGISTERS. AND THEN YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY MOVED TO, WHERE THEY CAME FROM, WHAT HOUSE SIZE THEY CAME FROM, WHERE DO THEY GO TO THE U.S.

POSTAL SERVICE HAS HOUSE SIZE. YOU CAN DELINEATE THAT INFORMATION IF YOU DRILL DOWN AND PULL THEIR BLOCK AND LOT. YES. FROM THE US POSTAL SERVICE. SO I JUST SAID, EXCUSE ME IF, YOU CAN GET THAT INFORMATION WITH THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO AND DELINEATE BY BLOCK AND LOCK, YOU CAN PULL ANY INFORMATION YOU WANT ON ANY PROPERTY, YOU WANT SOME OTHER SOURCE. AFTER YOU GET THE INFORMATION FROM THE POSTAL SERVICE OF WHERE THEY MOVED. SO WE HAVE MANY SOURCES THAT WE PUT TOGETHER FOR OUR ANALYSIS. AND THIS IS PART OF A LARGER TREND THAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS NEW JERSEY. AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE. SO WHERE DID YOU GET THE SPECIFIC DATA FOR MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP THAT IT WAS MOVING TO SMALLER, LET'S SAY I'M GOING TO CALL THEM DWELLING SIZES OR UNIT SIZES, THIS IS PROBABLY EVIDENT, JUST BY WALKING, BY THE VILLAGE WALK SITE. I MEAN, AND YOU'RE SAYING YOU COULD SEE THE NEW APARTMENT, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION MULTIFAMILY BEING CONSTRUCTED? YES. AND, AND WE SEE IT ACROSS THE BOARD IN TERMS OF COUNTLESS PROJECTS THAT WE WORK ON. BUT THE DATA THAT'S PRESENTED IN FRONT OF YOU IN TERMS OF POPULATION IS DRIVEN FROM THE US CENSUS. THE AMERICAN COMMUNITY SURVEY, THE SITE TO DO BUSINESS.

THAT'S WHAT THE POPULATION, HOUSEHOLD INCOME DATA IS COMING FROM. THANK YOU. THAT'S THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. THANK YOU. OKAY SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT ALL OF THIS DATA AND KNOW WHETHER SOMEONE'S GOING TO WANT TO USE A SELF-STORAGE FACILITY OR NOT BY WHERE THEY LIVE. SO WE LOOK AT SELF-STORAGE TRENDS AND USAGE BASED UPON DEMOGRAPHICS, BASED UPON HOUSEHOLD INCOME, AND BASED UPON USAGE OF HOW MUCH FACILITIES ACTUALLY EXIST THERE, HOW MANY SQUARE FEET EXIST. WE SURVEYED THE EXISTING FACILITIES AND WE FIND OUT THEIR DEMAND, AND THEN WE SURVEY OTHER DEVELOPERS IN THE AREA WHO WOULD BUILD SELF-STORAGE IN THE AREA, AND WE FIND OUT IF THEY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN A SITE IN THIS AREA. WE, WE GO A VERY BROAD STROKE. WE ASK JUST ABOUT EVERY QUESTION FROM EVERYBODY WE CAN TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THESE OPINIONS. SO AND YOU MENTIONED 83,500 PEOPLE, BUT YOU DIDN'T MENTION WHAT RADIUS OR AREA IS

[01:15:04]

NOW, WE IDENTIFIED IN OUR REPORT LOCAL FACILITIES THAT I MAY ADD ARE FAR INFERIOR PRODUCTS TO WHAT WE'RE OFFERING HERE, THEY'RE NOT EVEN REALLY COMPARABLE IN THAT SENSE, WHEN

[01:20:01]

IT WAS SO LONG AGO. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER. IT WAS BASICALLY THAT THERE'S YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SAYING THAT NO, NO, NO, NO NO NO, IT WASN'T STOP. I SHE, SHE SAID, SHE SAID THAT IF YOU USE THIS YARDI MATRIX AND YOU PUT IN ROCKY HILL, THERE ARE 43 PROPERTIES THAT COME UP AND SO SHE WAS WONDERING WHY THERE WERE 43 PROPERTIES THAT COME UP ON YARDI MATRIX. THAT WAS HER QUESTION. IT WAS TWO PARTS, ACTUALLY. RIGHT. AND SHE ALSO SAID THAT SHE SAID THAT WITHIN THAT ARTICLE IT SAID THAT SELF-STORAGE WAS COOLING, AND SHE MENTIONED THAT AS WELL.

RIGHT. BUT THE QUESTION SHE ASKED WAS WHY? IF YOU ACCORDING TO WHY, IF YOU GO TO YARDI MATRIX AND PUT IN ROCKY HILL, WHY WOULD 43 PLACES COME UP? THAT WAS HER QUESTION, RIGHT? AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IF YOU IF YOU USE THAT IF YOU USE THAT PROPERLY, YARDI, THERE ARE NOT 46 FACILITIES TO COME UP. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE GOT TO THAT NUMBER. THAT'S THAT'S FINE. SO THAT'S A THAT'S A, THAT'S A THAT'S A FINE ANSWER. RIGHT. SO SO IT'S A FAIR QUESTION AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE'S ASKING. BUT THERE ARE NOT 46 COMPETING PROPERTIES IN THIS LOCAL MARKET.

SO YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT 46 COMPETING PROPERTIES WITHIN FIVE MILES I UNDERSTAND. BUT IS THERE SOME OTHER SETTING THAT YOU COULD ASK YARDI FOR THAT WOULD COME UP WITH MORE THAN FOUR FACILITIES? I MEAN, IF YOU KEEP IF YOU JUST MAKE THE RADIUS GO AS FAR AS YOU WANT TO UNTIL YOU GET THE ANSWER YOU WANT. THAT'S WHAT I'M CURIOUS. IF YOU LISTEN, HOLD ON. IF YOU USE YARDI, CAN YOU SET THE RADIUS YOURSELF, OR DO YOU JUST DOES IT AUTOMATICALLY, OR DO YOU JUST PLUG IN FIVE MILES BECAUSE THAT'S THE INDUSTRY STANDARD IN THE YARDI SOFTWARE. YOU CAN PLUG IN WHATEVER YOU WANT. IT'S A USER BASED SYSTEM. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THESE GUYS? OKAY. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BAILEY OCCHIPINTI B A I L E Y O C C H I

[01:25:11]

SO OKAY, NEXT QUESTION. HOW MANY FACILITIES? I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, DID YOU STATE WITHIN A FIVE MILE RADIUS FOR AND IN WHAT, LIKE LEASE UP OR OCCUPANCY? DID YOU TRACK THAT OR IS THAT FOR THE NEXT WITNESS TO OPINE. WELL, WE SURVEYED THEM. BUT THEY AREN'T ALWAYS THE MOST WILLING TO DISCLOSE HOW MUCH IS ACTUALLY OCCUPIED IN THAT SPACE. INSTEAD, WE HAVE TO USE WHAT'S AVAILABLE, EXACTLY LIKE WHAT THE PUBLIC WOULD VIEW. AND WE TAKE THAT AT FACE VALUE FOR THEIR VACANCY, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE UNITS THAT ARE BEING OFFERED ON THE MARKET. OKAY. SO FOR THOSE FOUR FACILITIES, WHAT WERE THEIR VACANCY RATES, WHAT WE JUST SAID IS THAT WE DON'T WORK FOR THOSE FACILITIES AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE US THEIR FINANCIALS, IT'S NOT YOU CAN'T WALK IN THE DOOR AND SAY, HEY, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE IF YOU'RE YOU DON'T KNOW, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO KNOW WITHOUT WORKING FOR THEM SPECIFICALLY. SO YOU COULD CALL THEM UP. IT'S POSSIBLE YOU COULD CALL THEM UP AND ASK AND THEY COULD TELL YOU THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TELL YOU. THEY ALL SAID NO.

YEAH, WE KNOW, BUT YOU SAID YOU CALLED. AND THEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR AVAILABLE UNITS RIGHT. SO YOU DID SHOP THAT COMP OR THOSE COMPS. YES. AND WHAT. OKAY. CAN YOU IDENTIFY WHAT THOSE FOUR COMPS WERE. SO AND SO WHAT WHAT HE WAS SAYING THAT HE DOES IS THAT IF WE LOOK AT THE QUESTION SHE ASKED HIM, HE'S THE ONE WHO MADE THE CALLS. HE SHOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE PRESENTED IN THE LETTER TO THE BOARD THIS EVENING THAT JUST CAME OUT. YEP. THAT'S THE PRINCETON SELF-STORAGE. THAT'S LIFE STORAGE. LIFE STORAGE. THAT'S METRO SELF STORAGE AND METRO STORAGE AND LIFE STORAGE ARE IN SOUTH BRUNSWICK. YES. EXTRA SPACE STORAGE. AND YOU YOU LISTED THERE WERE FOUR. YEP. AND THEN LASTED MORE THAN FOUR. JUST. NO NO NO I JUST DID, A RECAP FOR YOU. SO I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY CONFUSION. SO I GOT PRINCETON SELF STORAGE LIFE STORAGE, METRO SELF STORAGE AND EXTRA SPACE STORAGE. OKAY. AND WHERE IS THE LIFE STORAGE AND EXTRA SPACE STORAGE LOCATED? IF YOU HAVE EXTRA COPIES OF YOUR REPORT AND YOU GIVE THEM TO THE PUBLIC, YOU CAN PROBABLY SAVE ON ANSWERING A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS. BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU.

UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T, LET'S GIVE HER THE ANSWER. YEAH, YEAH, I CAN TELL YOU THAT, LIFE STORAGE AND METRO SELF STORAGE. THEY'RE RIGHT ON ONE, U.S. ONE WHAT TOWN, THEY'RE IN SOUTH

[01:30:02]

YEAH, OKAY, IN TERMS OF SEVEN SQUARE FEET PER PERSON, LIKE WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FROM LIKE A CONSUMER STANDPOINT? LIKE I NEED MORE THAN SEVEN SQUARE FEET OF SELF STORAGE PER PERSON. RIGHT, THAT COMES FROM THE EXISTING SUPPLY IN THE MARKET SIMPLY DIVIDED BY THE POPULATION AS DETERMINED BY WHO WHO DECIDED SEVEN WAS RIGHT OR TEN WAS RIGHT, OR WHAT THE ACHIEVABLE SELF STORAGE RATE SHOULD BE, THE MARKET DECIDED BUYERS, SELLERS, DEVELOPERS AND THE LIKE. SO SEVEN REPRESENTS AN OVERSUPPLY OF 7.1FT■!S WOULD REPRESENT AN OVERSUPPLY. YES, SEVEN, SEVEN FEET PER PERSON. OKAY BASED ON NATIONAL DATA. YEAH NATIONAL DATA FROM THAT YOU GOT FROM YARDI MATRIX. YES, SIR. AND WHERE DID YOU GET THE DATA FOR THE NEW JERSEY 6.8 THAT I WAS WORKING? THAT'S MY OWN ANALYSIS THAT I AMUSING FROM A YARDI 2021 REPORT. AND I ROUNDED BECAUSE I THINK IT'S OUTDATED. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S I'M TRYING TO WORK TOWARD A BETTER NUMBER FOR, FOR TOWNS LIKE YOU. OKAY. WE'LL PUT IT THIS WAY. CAN YOU SUBMIT THAT ALSO? SURE. ANYTHING THE BOARD WISHES I'M WILLING TO DO. YEAH OKAY. NEXT QUESTION. DO YOU USE SELF STORAGE? I DID, I MOVED FOUR TIMES IN THREE MONTHS WHEN MY WIFE AND I WERE MOVING FROM OUR APARTMENT TO OUR CONDO TO OUR HOUSE. OKAY. AND YOU AND YOURSELF. YES, I HAVE A I HAVE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S. THESE ARE PERSONAL QUESTIONS WE'RE GETTING INTO NOW, I HAVE A BIAS. I MEAN, I GUESS I DON'T KNOW, I HAVE A, I HAVE A SELF STORAGE DRIVE UP UNIT, A ROLL UP DOOR UNIT AND BERNARDSVILLE, NEW JERSEY THAT I LIVE AND IT'S WITHIN, I WOULD SAY A MINUTE AND A HALF OF MY HOME. RIGHT THEN THE ONLY OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS I SEEM TO HAVE IS LIKE, WHAT THE TREND WAS 2021 TO NOW, IF WE COULD GET THAT INFORMATION. A NUMBER OF FACILITIES DEVELOPED. THANK YOU. GREAT. HI. I'M SUSAN BRISTOL WASHINGTON STREET, ALSO KNOWN AS ROUTE 518, IN ROCKY HILL, MY QUESTION IS, DID I HEAR YOU CORRECTLY WHEN I HEARD THAT THE ACREAGE ON THIS PROPERTY IS BELOW THE NORM OR AVERAGE, THAT IS IDEAL FOR SELF STORAGE FACILITIES? NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE SAID. COULD YOU RESTATE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THIS BEING BELOW THE AVERAGE SIZE OF, THE TYPICAL SELF STORAGE DEVELOPMENT? WHY DID YOU PICK FIVE ACRES, START THERE, I HEARD. YEAH, YEAH, SO WE DETERMINED A THRESHOLD FOR THE ANALYSIS TO BE FIVE ACRES, ABOVE AND WHY JUST WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT? I UNDERSTAND.

LISTEN, YOU'RE NOT THE ATTORNEY, ALL RIGHT? IF HE THINKS IF HE WANTS TO OBJECT TO THE QUESTION, HE CAN. YOU JUST ANSWER IT? I'M JUST ANSWERING IT. YOU KEEP CUTTING ME OFF. OKAY, LET'S TAKE A STEP BACK. CHRIS, PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION. SO WE USE THE FIVE ACRE MARK AS THE AS THE BENCHMARK FOR ABOVE AND BELOW, IF WE WEREN'T INTENDING IT, IF IT CAME OUT INCORRECTLY TO SAY THAT THREE ACRES WAS A BELOW AVERAGE SITE, THERE ARE, SELF STORAGE FACILITIES ON ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF SIZE LOTS. AND WE WERE JUST SETTING FIVE ACRES AS THE THRESHOLD FOR DETERMINING A PROPER F.A.R. IT WASN'T SAYING THAT THREE ACRES WAS UNDERSIZED. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE FIVE ACRES? WHY DIDN'T YOU CHOOSE FOUR ACRES? WHY DIDN'T YOU CHOOSE SIX ACRES? FIVE ACRES IS THE STATE AVERAGE IS 5.12. SO I ROUNDED IT AND SAID FIVE ACRES, YOU COULD CALL

[01:35:03]

YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT. THAT'S THAT'S A COMMENT THAT YOU GOT TO YOU CAN SAY THAT IN YOUR TESTIMONY. BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND F.A.R DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

AND THERE IT IS. OKAY. SO YOU KNOW BETTER. PLEASE SECOND QUESTION, WHEN, COULD YOU PLEASE HELP US UNDERSTAND IN THE MUNICIPALITY, WHEN A PROJECT LIKE THIS LOSES ITS PURPOSE DUE TO THESE RAPIDLY CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS, CULTURAL SHIFTS, TRENDS OR ECONOMICS, WHAT IS THE BEST USE FOR A VACANT SELF-STORAGE FACILITY OR WHAT IS THE ADAPTIVE REUSE POTENTIAL OF A PROJECT LIKE THIS, WHEN IT NO LONGER HAS ITS USE OR VALUE IN THE REAL ESTATE WORLD OF YOUR EXPERTISE? THAT'S UNFORTUNATELY OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF MY ASSIGNMENT. I DISAGREE. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK THAT'S A I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK THAT YOU'RE QUALIFIED TO ANSWER IT ALSO, WHAT IS THE BUILDING OF THIS SIZE BECOME? PICKLEBALL COURTS.

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FEEDING. I CAN TELL YOU, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FEEDING THE WITNESS ANSWERS. OKAY OKAY. YOU CAN OBJECT TO A QUESTION. YOU CANNOT FEED THE WITNESS ANSWERS.

I'M JUST TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE AS INAPPROPRIATE AS WHEN SHE MADE A COMMENT. RATHER THAN ASK A QUESTION, YOU BOTH KNOW BETTER. YEAH YEAH, SO. SO ANSWER MY QUESTION. SO THERE IS AN ANSWER IN THE FACT THAT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. IN MY OPINION, THE DEMAND THERE IS FOR THE USE.

THERE'S AN ADEQUATE DEMAND FOR THE USE. AND THE, THE AVERAGE BUILDING LIFE WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 60 YEARS. AND WITHIN THAT PURVIEW THAT I CAN GIVE YOU RIGHT NOW, THEY'LL BE ADEQUATE DEMAND. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU'RE WELCOME. MY APOLOGIES. NO NO NO.

[01:40:04]

YEAH SO YOU SPOKE TO THAT. YOU HAVE WORKED ON THIS SITE FOR HAVE THIS SURGERY WITH THIS SITE, KNOW ABOUT IT, SO IS THIS JUST YOU WANTED TO GET A SELF STORAGE FACILITY BUILT ON THIS SITE, OR WAS THIS THE MARKET STUDY INDICATED AREA I SEE. SO, WERE ANY OTHER PROPERTIES EVALUATED? GOTCHA. IN YOUR ANALYSIS, THE FULL GENESIS OF HOW WE WERE INVOLVED WAS THE ORIGINAL LENDER WHO LENT ON THE PROPERTY, OUR COMPANY DID THE APPRAISAL FOR BECAUSE WE DO A LOT OF BANK APPRAISALS AS WELL, THE, THE, THE LENDER TOOK THE PROPERTY BACK AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT. SO THEY CAME TO US AND WE PERFORMED AN ANALYSIS FOR HIM YEARS AGO ON ALL THE DIFFERENT POTENTIAL USES, LOOKING AT WHAT COULD GO HERE, WHAT COULD FIT HERE, AND, THE ONLY THING THAT WE CAME UP WITH, ACTUALLY, CONNOR CAME UP WITH WAS AND IT WASN'T WITHIN THE APPROVED USES WAS THIS WOULD BE A GREAT LOCATION FOR A SELF-STORAGE STORAGE FACILITY, ON HOW IT WOULD WORK FROM A DEMAND PERSPECTIVE FROM THE MARKET PERSPECTIVE. CORRECT.

PERSPECTIVE. CORRECT. AND, SO AND WE WORKED ON THE FACILITY, WE DID A STUDY. WE PRESENTED A LOT OF RESULTS TO THE PREVIOUS OWNER, THAT OWNER SOLD IT TO THE CURRENT OWNER THAT'S IN PLACE, WHO BROUGHT US ON BOARD TO DO THIS ANALYSIS HERE. SO WE DIDN'T CHOOSE THE SITE FOR HIM. WE DIDN'T WE DIDN'T SELECT THE USE FOR THEM IN ANY WAY, WE JUST PERFORMED STUDIES AND ANALYSIS AND APPRAISALS IN THE PAST ON THE SITE TO SEE WHAT THE PROPERTY WOULD BE THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE. ESSENTIALLY, I UNDERSTAND, AND PART OF YOUR ANALYSIS, DOES THE UNIT NUMBER LIKE THE NUMBER OF STORAGE UNITS YOU WOULD NEED TO MAKE THIS A FEASIBLE? IS THAT PART OF WHAT YOU LOOK AT? OR SO THAT'S NOT IN OUR ANALYSIS HERE. YEAH, AND I KNOW, BUT IT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

YEAH. IT HAS TO BE A PART OF SOMETHING. YEAH SO, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY THAT WE'RE YOU KNOW, THE GENERAL RULE OF THUMB IS, IS THAT WE'RE IN THIS PROJECT HERE. WE'RE BASICALLY AT THAT MINIMUM, FOR A PROJECT TO WORK, IN MY OPINION, I'M NOT THE DEVELOPER. I DON'T MAKE THOSE DECISIONS IN ANY WAY, I HAVE NO VESTED INTEREST IN THIS SITE, BUT FROM MY ANALYSIS IS THAT I HAVE RUN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS REALLY THE ALREADY AT THE MINIMUM THRESHOLD. YOU DON'T SEE A LOT OF FACILITIES BUILT UNDER 100,000FT■!S AT ALL ANYMORE, 10, 100. I KNOW IT'S 107, BUT YOU REALLY DON'T SEE IT BECAUSE WITH THE COST INFLATED COST, EVERYTHING WHERE IT'S AT IN ORDER TO HIT, YOU KNOW, A REASONABLE RATE OF RETURN, GENERALLY YOU HAVE TO BE AT A CERTAIN SIZE, AND I THINK WE'RE AT THE MINIMUM HERE. I DON'T I DON'T THINK IT WOULD GO I DON'T I DON'T THINK IT WOULD GO FORWARD IN MY OPINION, YOU KNOW, ON THAT TYPE OF USE, SHOULD THERE BE LESS, LESS. WELL IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE SIZE AND SHAPE OF THE BUILDING ACTUALLY WAS ALTERED BECAUSE OF THE SITE CONSTRAINTS OF THE MONITORING WELLS. YEAH. AND BEING LOCATED ON A SUPERFUND. YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF RELIEF REQUIRED. I KNOW, I'M WELL AWARE. YEAH YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO ADD THAT IN, BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY FORMED ITS SITE CONSTRAINTS ACTUALLY FORMED WHAT DEVELOPMENT COULD BE SUITED HERE. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF USES THAT COULD USE THAT TYPE OF RESTRAINTS AS WELL. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT THERE ARE SOME CAR WASH. CAR WASH. YEAH. CAR WASH WOULD GO WELL. THERE YEAH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. CAR WASH. GREAT. THANK YOU. HI, I'M WESLEY WILSON. I LIVE ON PRINCETON AVENUE IN ROCKY HILL. SAY THAT. REPEAT THE NAME WESLEY WILSON. I LIVE ON PRINCETON AVENUE IN ROCKY HILL. THANK YOU, JUST A QUESTION ON YOUR SENSITIVITY ANALYSIS ON THE ECONOMICS OF THE SITE. AND YOU'VE ALLUDED A COUPLE OF TIMES TO THE IMPORTANCE OF INTEREST RATES IN DRIVING THE DEVELOPMENT OF, SELF-STORAGE OVERALL, AND THAT THIS SITE IS KIND OF AT THE MARGIN. IS THERE IS THERE AN INTEREST RATE THRESHOLD HERE WHERE THE SITE IS NOT DEVELOPABLE, ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED AS SELF-STORAGE? OR YOU'VE ALSO ALLUDED TO INFINITE KIND OF DEMAND IS THE DEMAND SO HIGH THAT IT CAN BEAR, YOU KNOW, CONTINUED INCREASES IN INTEREST RATES. IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT THRESHOLDS BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY

[01:45:03]

AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION, BUT IS WAS THE PURCHASE OF THIS PROPERTY SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL BY THE ZONING BOARD, THIS EVENING? NO, IT WASN'T, THERE WAS NO CONTINGENCIES, IN THIS DEAL HERE, THE ORIGINAL DEAL WAS CONTINGENT UPON APPROVALS, BUT THEN IT ENDED UP BEING PURCHASED. AS IS, AT A DIFFERENT CONTRACT PRICE. SO THANK YOU.

AND THE BUILDING WAS STILL ON IT TO THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. NOW, THE PURCHASER WAS, WAS, WAS TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILITY AND HAD TO TAKE DOWN THE BUILDING HIMSELF. SOUNDS UGLY. YEAH.

EXACTLY. YOU ARE THE ONE ON WASHINGTON STREET, ROCKY HILL. JUST A QUICK QUESTION. YES, SIR.

HOW MANY? SELF-STORAGE UNITS HAVE BEEN BUILT IN NEW JERSEY AND ESSENTIALLY A RESIDENTIAL AREA AS OPPOSED TO A COMMERCIAL AREA? I THINK WE'RE RIGHT ON THE BORDER HERE. YEAH, IT'S SURROUNDED BY. I THINK THIS QUESTION IS, IT THIS REALLY RELATES TO THE DATA THAT THE BOARD IS LOOKING FOR FROM US, THE ADDITIONAL DATA. LISTEN UNLESS HE OBJECTS, JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION. YOU CAN'T OBJECT. YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT. IF THE ATTORNEY SAYS I OBJECT TO THE QUESTION, GIVE ME AN ANSWER. I DON'T THINK. I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN ANSWER, COUNSELOR, TO BE FAIR, I DON'T THINK HE'S OBJECTING, DOESN'T OBJECT. IF YOU COULD JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION. I THINK YOU WERE GETTING THERE. I DON'T THINK WE ARE. WE DON'T HAVE THAT DATA OFFHAND. WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. BUT WHAT I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF SAYING WAS, WAS THAT THE BOARD ASKED US OF SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO SYNTHESIZE BEFORE THE END OF TONIGHT, AND WE MAY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SOME CLARITY ON THAT OR NOT. I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S WITHIN THAT DATA, BUT IF IT IS, I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE IT, BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE DELINEATING SOME DATA ON THOSE ANSWERS. BUT IT'S A TOUGH ONE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THESE FACILITIES DO SIT IN, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL AREAS, BUT THEY DO LIE ON THE EDGE OF RESIDENTIAL AREAS IN SOME CASES. AND THEN IT GETS HARD TO DELINEATE THEM, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES THESE ARE DONE BY ZONING. SO IF IT'S IN COMMERCIAL ZONING, IT'S GOING TO CLASSIFY IT AS A COMMERCIAL AREA. SO THAT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR ME TO PULL OUT. BUT IF WE CAN PULL IT OUT, I'M HAPPY TO I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU. WHATEVER WE GET BY THE END OF THE NIGHT, BUT IF WE CAN'T GET IT, I APOLOGIZE. IT'S JUST NOT THE DATA THAT WE HAVE.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. IT'S A GOOD ANSWER. THE THING GOES FASTER IF PEOPLE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. GREAT. HIGH STREET, US 106 WASHINGTON STREET. CAN YOU SPELL? YES OR CAN YOU? CAN YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME? O P E T R E D I S? THANKS.

AND YOU'RE A RESIDENT OF. YES. I JUST MOVED IN. ACTUALLY, I BOUGHT ROCKY HILL. A RESIDENT OF ROCKY HILL. OKAY. THANK YOU, HI. YOU MENTIONED YOU DID SOME RESEARCH AROUND OTHER USES FOR THIS PROPERTY. WHAT WERE THEY, SO THE STANDARD PROCEDURE THAT WE GO THROUGH IS WE GO THROUGH ALL THE, AS OF. RIGHT, WE CALL IT, OR PERMITTED USES ON THE SITE, EVERYTHING FROM, THE, CONNOR KNOWS MOST OF THE USES BETTER THAN I DO, BUT FROM IT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, RETAIL RESTAURANTS, EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW. YEAH OFFICE HOSPITALITY, AND WHEN WE WENT THROUGH ALL THE USES, THERE WAS NO REAL DEMAND THAT WE CAN QUANTIFY. THAT WOULD WORK, CONSIDERING THE KIND OF THE CHANGE IN THE RETAIL MARKET THAT HAPPENED, THE ONLY USES THAT WE SAW THAT WOULD BE ACTUALLY VIABLE WERE, A CAR WAS. AND THAT WAS COMPLETELY I THINK IT WAS IN AS OF RIGHT APPLICATION. I DON'T EVEN THINK THERE WAS ANY VARIANCES FOR IT, OR A MOTEL, AND A MOTEL. YOU CAN

[01:50:03]

SO. AND IF THIS PROJECT WERE TO COME INTO FRUITION, HOW DO YOU PERCEIVE MONITORING, MONITORING WHAT IS BEING STORED? IN OTHER WORDS, KEEPING IT SAFE, KEEPING PEOPLE FROM LIVING IN THESE SPACES, POTENTIALLY. SO THAT'S THAT'S NOT A QUESTION I DON'T THINK, CHRIS. THAT'S NOT WITHIN MY PURVIEW OR MY EXPERTISE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, IN OUR OWN TOWN, WE HAVE OUR TOWNSHIP ZONING AND BUILDING OFFICIALS WHO DEAL WITH MOST OF THAT. YEAH. CHRIS. EXCUSE ME. WE WE'RE NOT GOING TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I BELIEVE THERE'S ALREADY TESTIMONY ABOUT THAT, WE'D BE HAPPY TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE TRANSCRIPTS. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. WELL ANYONE ELSE? PEOPLE LIVING IN THERE? ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE? HAVE ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE THE CHAIRMAN GOES TO THE BOARD? EXPERTS AND THEN THE BOARD MEMBERS? NO. ALL RIGHT, SO EXPERTS, PLEASE, TWO QUESTIONS, SO MY FIRST IS REGARDING INTEREST RATES AND THEIR IMPACT ON DEMAND AS IT RELATES TO HOMEOWNERSHIP. SO IN YOUR ANALYSIS, WHICH AGAIN, I RECEIVED TODAY. SO, EVERY THIS EVERYONE RECEIVED IT TODAY. YEP ALL RIGHT. SO IS THERE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD INTEREST RATES WHERE THEY WERE, THE FEDERAL FUNDS RATE WERE WHERE THEY WERE FOR 2021 LEVELS.

RIGHT WHEN THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, HOME PURCHASING AND DEMAND FOR PURCHASING HOMES WAS VERY HIGH.

HOW WOULD THAT IMPACT YOUR ANALYSIS ON THE DEMAND FOR SELF-STORAGE? RIGHT. IF THERE WAS A CYCLICAL DECREASE OR INCREASE IN INTEREST RATES AS THEY RELATE TO MORTGAGE COSTS? AND IF I NEED TO REPHRASE THAT QUESTION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. NO, I GOT IT. SO IT'S, IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION, WHEN AS IT RELATES TO SELF-STORAGE DEMAND, UNLESS IT WAS SPURRING MORE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WOULD BE PRETTY HARD TO DO, IT WOULDN'T HAVE ANY INCREASE OR DECREASE, THE RESIDENTIAL HOUSING MARKET IN TODAY'S MARKET IS VERY UNIQUE, AND IT'S CHANGED IN SO MANY WAYS, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A VERY HIGH DEMAND AND LOW SUPPLY SITUATION, WHICH EVEN WITH INTEREST RATES COMING DOWN IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. SO JUST BECAUSE OF MANY DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES THAT HAVE OCCURRED, ESPECIALLY WITH MAINLY WHAT HAPPENED WITH COVID, WE HAVE PEOPLE MOVING LESS, PEOPLE TAKING JOB OPPORTUNITIES WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE TO MOVE STATES OR PEOPLE NO LONGER UPGRADING HOUSES AS OFTEN THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MOVING ARE ACTUALLY SELLING THEIR HOUSES FAR LESS THAN THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PURCHASE COMING INTO THE STATE. SO I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT SITUATION CHANGING IN THE NEXT DECADE, I JUST SEE FAR MORE DEMAND, UNFORTUNATELY, COMING IN, WHICH IS GOING TO DRIVE UP HOME PRICES EVEN MORE FOR PEOPLE, WHICH IS GOOD FOR SELLERS, BAD FOR BUYERS. OKAY, SO THEN WOULD HOUSING SUPPLY DO YOU FEEL IS A WOULD THAT BE A LARGER FACTOR THAN INTEREST RATES OR MORTGAGE RATES THEN.

SO, IT IS IT IS A DEMAND DRIVER, IF WE HAD MORE SUPPLY COMING INTO THE AREA AND WE HAD, ABILITY TO DEVELOP MORE APARTMENTS, MORE TOWNHOUSES, WE WOULD ULTIMATELY SEE DEMAND FOR EVEN MORE SELF-STORAGE. OKAY, AND THEN SIMILAR. BUT INSTEAD OF INTEREST RATES, YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR RESEARCH UNEMPLOYMENT RATES, IF THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN UNEMPLOYMENT RATES TO I'M NOT GOING TO PICK A REFERENCE HERE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANY OFFHAND, BUT GENERALLY YOU FORESEE THAT EMPLOYMENT WILL CONTINUE TO GROW. BUT IF UNEMPLOYMENT GREW FASTER THAN EMPLOYMENT, WOULD THAT IMPACT YOUR ANALYSIS IN ANY WAY, OR WOULD IT HAVE TO BE A DRAMATIC

[01:55:01]

BECAUSE THAT WAS THE FIRST SECTOR TO RECOVER. SO YES, EVERYTHING COULD HAVE AN IMPACT, I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A PRETTY LARGE EVENT FOR IT TO HAPPEN, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT THE LONG TERM VIABILITY OF THE USE IN THIS LOCATION. OKAY. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE DRIVING TOWARDS. THAT'S EXACTLY MY. THOSE SEEM TO BE THE TWO METRICS THAT FORM THE CORE OF YOUR DEMAND ANALYSIS. YES. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED CLARIFICATION ON. THOSE ARE MY TWO QUESTIONS. AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOTHING ELSE. ALL RIGHT, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, QUESTIONS FOR THIS WITNESS. I HAD A QUESTION ON THE CHART ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE THREE. YEAH.

I SEE HOW YOU CAME UP WITH THE ABOVE FIVE UNDER FIVE BASED ON THE STATE AVERAGE, I GUESS I'M CURIOUS. AND IF YOU PROVIDE THE DATA, WE'D HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS. WHAT? THE MEDIAN LOT SIZE WAS. BECAUSE I'M. I'M JUST CONCERNED WITH THE ACTUAL NUMBER IN YOUR SAMPLE SIZE FOR THE UNDER FIVE ACRES. IT COULD BE SWAYED BY. SO IT'S THE MEDIAN, NOT THE AVERAGE. YES, SIR. WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO PULL ALL THAT INFORMATION OUT FOR YOU, AND THEN I KNOW IT'S NOT THE SAME DATA SET AS BEFORE, BUT, THERE IS GOING TO BE TESTIMONY ON A NUMBER OF SELF-STORAGE FACILITIES THAT THE ANOTHER EXPERT WORKED ON, KNOWS THEM AND IS GOING TO PRESENT THEIR FARS.

AND SO I THINK THAT WILL PROVIDE ADDITIONAL COLOR. BUT WE'RE STILL GOING TO PULL ALL OF OUR DATA OUT AND WE'LL WE'LL GIVE YOU WHATEVER WE CAN GET OUT OF IT. BUT I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. YEAH, YEAH. GO AHEAD. JOHN WHAT MY QUESTION IS ABOUT MAXIMUM LOT COVERAGE, THE ZONING ALLOWS 55%. PROPOSED IS 58.3%. IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, HAS THE APPLICANT CONSIDER BRINGING IT DOWN TO 55%, WHICH WOULD ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR ONE OF THE VARIANCES. I WOULD LOVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BUT I'M NOT QUALIFIED. I WOULD LOVE TO, BUT IT'S NOT WITHIN MY EXPERTISE THAT WOULD BE FOR THE PLANNER. RIGHT, SIR. CORRECT. RIGHT, RIGHT. I WAS NOT AVOIDING YOUR QUESTION THOUGH, SIR. YEP, YEP. SO ON THE TOP OF PAGE THREE, YOU HAVE A LIST OF YOUR MARKET ANALYSIS OF THE CLOSEST FACILITIES, RIGHT? THE CLOSEST FACILITIES. THERE'S FOUR OF THEM WITHIN FIVE MILES. IN FIVE MILES. YES, SIR. OKAY SO, OF ALL OF THOSE FACILITIES, THEY ALL NONE OF THEM ARE UNDER THE FIVE, LOT ACRES. THEY'RE ALL OVER FIVE. AND SO I'M TRYING TO I KNOW THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THIS DATA RIGHT NOW, BUT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE, THE AN ASSESSMENT OF WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, BUILDING A SELF-STORAGE FACILITY IN THIS AREA CAN BE COMPARED TO THESE OTHERS WHEN THEY'RE SO DIFFERENT. I LOOKED UP GOOGLE MAPS FOR ALL OF THEM, AND THEY'RE ALL BY HIGHWAYS OR BY AIRPORTS OR, OFF OF ROUTE ONE, MAJOR INTERCHANGES OR OR OR EVEN. I LOOKED AT THE ONE IN THE, THE ONE BY YOU, WHICH PROBABLY IS ON A FARM OR NEAR A QUARRY. YEAH. SO THE FACT IS, ALL OF THESE ARE IN AREAS THAT ARE NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF TOWN. AND WHERE YOU'RE BUILDING THIS FACILITY IS LITERALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR TOWN. AND SO I REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN COMPARE OURS TO THESE FACILITIES WHEN JUST DON'T THE NUMBERS DON'T NUMBER FOR ME, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION, AND I'LL START BY SAYING THAT WE THESE FARMERS OF THESE PROPERTIES, THEY'RE NOT THE MOST COMPARABLE PROPERTIES WHEN IT COMES TO DESIGN AND APPEAL AND, TECHNOLOGY AND CLIMATE CONTROL IN THE FACILITY, WHICH THE OTHER EXPERTS ARE GOING TO GET INTO, BUT WE CAN'T IGNORE WHAT'S JUST IN THE LOCAL AREA. WE CAN'T IGNORE THAT WITHIN THE FIVE MILE RADIUS, WE HAVE THESE OLDER FACILITIES THAT DO NOT PROVIDE, REALLY SOME OF THE SERVICES THAT I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE GOING TO WANT TO UTILIZE, WHICH IS CLIMATE CONTROL, THE F A R IS FOR THESE BUILDINGS, GENERALLY USED TO BE MUCH LOWER IN THESE OLDER DESIGN STYLES, AND THAT HAS CHANGED, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO THE DATA WILL SHOW THAT, IN WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT AS A FOLLOW UP AND WHAT THE PLANNER IS GOING TO

[02:00:04]

THEY'RE SEEKING APARTMENTS. THEY'RE SEEKING NEW HOUSING OF ALL TYPES. ANYTHING THAT THEY CAN GET OUT OF BECAUSE THEY CAN'T WAIT TO GET OUT OF MOM AND DAD'S BASEMENT OR UPSTAIRS, OR.

YOU DON'T HAVE MY KIDS. YEAH SO DO YOU HAVE ANY ANALYSIS ON THE POPULATION MAKEUP IN IN THE AREA? TO SEE WHAT THE BREAKOUT IS FOR THESE VARIOUS POPULATION. I CAN LOOK FURTHER INTO THAT TO SEE IF I CAN PROVIDE THAT FOR YOU. THANK YOU. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THANK YOU. OKAY I THINK THAT'S IT. YEAH. OKAY GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU.

BOARD. THANK YOU. THE MAKEUP OF THE DEMOGRAPHICS. BEFORE WE MOVE ON WE CAN LOOK AT IT LATER. YES.

THANK YOU AGAIN. I MAY HAVE THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. AND IN MY NOTES. SO IF I FIND IT, I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU. OKAY? LET HIM. OKAY. THANK YOU. CHAIRMAN. WE HAVE ONE MORE EXPERT TONIGHT.

OUR PLANNER, CRAY CRAY, HAS BEEN SWORN IN. I BELIEVE HE'S STILL UNDER OATH, COUNCILOR RICE, THANKS. FOR. DON'T GO TOO FAR. LET'S GO TO RICHARD. YOU NEED TO REACH IT.

YEAH. IF YOU WANT THE TABLE. OKAY YEAH. OKAY MR. CHAIR AND, THAT IS YOURS, COUNCILOR, THERE WAS AN EXHIBIT THAT WAS ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW, DO YOU HAVE COPIES? I DO, WE HAVE COPIES.

I'LL HAND OUT TO THE BOARD. IT'S GOING TO BE A 12. AND WHAT'S THIS EXHIBIT GOING TO BE CALLED? IT LOOKS LIKE SOME SORT OF SPREADSHEET FOR OUR RESULTS. IT'S CALLED IF THEY ARE, CAN WE CALL IT THE FA SPREADSHEET? SURE AND THIS WAS PREPARED BY MR. RAY CAMP. YES THANK YOU.

DOES IT HAVE A DATE ON IT? IT DOES NOT. OKAY, LET'S GIVE IT A DATE. WHEN? WHEN DID YOU PREPARE IT? I MIGHT AS WELL PICK TODAY'S DATE THEN. JUST TO HAVE A DATE. OKAY, SO WE'RE GOING TO FOR THE OFFICE EXHIBIT. COPY LET'S PUT TODAY'S DATE ON IT. BUT WE HAVE A RELOADING CHECK CONNECTION ISSUE. THANKS. I MEAN, THIS WAS A 12 812. THANK YOU SIR, FOR OUR SPREADSHEET PREPARED BY CRAY CAMP WITH TODAY'S DATE AUGUST 27TH, 2024. OKAY, MR. CAMP, YOU HAVE PREPARED THIS EXHIBIT, YOU'VE HEARD THE TESTIMONY OF MR. OTTO AND MR. MONTFERRAT. YOUR PLANNING TESTIMONY RELATED TO BOTH THE D1 USE VARIANCE WE'RE SEEKING AND THE FA VARIANCE AND ANY OTHER RELIEF WE'RE SEEKING TONIGHT THAT WASN'T ADDRESSED DURING OUR LAST HEARING, YEAH.

[02:05:03]

THEY'RE NOT A STATEWIDE DATABASE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DRILL DOWN INDIVIDUAL STORIES FROM. BUT NEITHER IS THIS A UNIVERSAL LIST. THIS IS NOT THERE'S THEY'RE NOT RANDOMLY SELECTED.

IT'S NOT UNIVERSAL. THESE ARE JUST THE PHYSICAL PROJECTS THAT THE PEOPLE BEFORE YOU HAVE HAPPENED TO WORK ON OVER THE PAST 3 TO 5 YEARS. WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THIS LIST IS WE CAME UP WITH 36 ACTUAL PROJECTS, AND THESE WERE ALL CLIMATE CONTROLLED. I DID NOT INCLUDE THE OLD FASHIONED ONE STORY, DRIVE UP KINDS OF THINGS. I CONSIDER THOSE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT USE, I UNDERSTAND FROM A MARKET PERSPECTIVE THEY NEEDED TO BE INCLUDED, BUT FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S A DIFFERENT USE. THEY'RE NOT PART OF THIS TABLE. SO THESE ARE APPLES TO APPLES CLIMATE CONTROLLED MULTI-STORY FACILITIES. THE KIND OF APPLICATION YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU THERE ARE 36 OF THEM. CAN I CAN I GET JUST IMMEDIATE CARE. SORRY FOR INTERRUPTING. JUST IMMEDIATE CLARIFICATION. DID YOU CHOOSE THIS LIST, THESE ALL INCLUSIVE, INCLUSIVE OF ALL PROPERTIES DEVELOPED OVER A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD. IS THAT HOW YOU GENERATED THIS LIST? NO. THIS LIST ARE THE PROJECTS THAT THE PEOPLE BEFORE YOU ON THIS APPLICATION HAVE WORKED ON. HE SAID. HE TESTIFIED THAT THE ARCHITECT AND ENGINEER PROVIDED THESE PROJECTS TO HIM AS PROJECTS THAT REPRESENTED UNIVERSITY FACILITIES THAT WERE CLIMATE CONTROLLED. YES. RIGHT. YEP. THE ONLY THING I WANT TO PUT IN THERE IS IT'S ALL OF THEM I DIDN'T SELECT OUT. WE DIDN'T SELECT OUT. IT'S EVERYTHING THAT OUR FIRMS HAVE WORKED ON. OKAY.

SO THERE ARE SOME IN HERE I'M GOING TO BE EMBARRASSED BY. BUT THEY'RE ON THE LIST BECAUSE WE WORKED ON THEM AS WE GET THROUGH THE INDIVIDUAL STORIES AND DISCUSSIONS AND THERE'S NO THERE'S NO OBVIOUS SORT TO THIS LIST. IS THAT RIGHT? NOT AT ALL. NO. THIS IS THE UNIVERSE OF EVERYTHING WE TOUCHED. OH SORTING. OKAY. RIGHT. WE DID NOT SELECT. WE DID NOT LEAVE ANYTHING OUT. JUST THE UNIVERSE OF EVERYTHING WE'VE WORKED ON. BUT AGAIN, ALL CLIMATE CONTROLLED. YES, IT'S THAT USE. BUT IT'S ALL OF THEM. YES. WHEN YOU SAY WHEN YOU. I'M SORRY.

WHEN YOU SAY WE, YOU MEAN YOUR PLANNING FIRM OR THE OR THE DEVELOPER. HE KEEPS ON SAYING WE. YEAH. WHAT HE SHOULD BE SAYING IS THE APPLICANT'S ENGINEER AND THE APPLICANT'S ARCHITECT. YES. CORRECT. I'VE SAID THAT NOW THREE TIMES. I KNOW, I'M JUST SAYING WE HE'S LIKE ME. NOW THAT I'VE SAID THAT, CAN I SAY WE FROM NOW ON? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. OKAY. SO NOW LET ME START TALKING ABOUT THE TABLE ITSELF, AS I SAID, WE'VE GOT 36 PROJECTS THAT CAME OUT OF THIS INVESTIGATION. THE UNIVERSE PLUS ONE. THE GREEN LINE IS THIS APPLICATION. SO THERE'S 37 LINES OF PROJECTS, INCLUDING THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION. SO YOU CAN COMPARE NUMBERS GOING UP AND DOWN THE TABLE WITH THIS APPLICATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE OF ALL OF THESE, 23 HAVE FLOOR AREA RATIOS ABOVE 0.9. WE'RE AT 0.83. WE'RE BELOW THAT THRESHOLD. SO 23 OF THEM ARE ABOVE 0.9 OKAY 90%. IT'S NOT A FLURRY OF PERCENTAGE. IT'S A RATIO. IF WE'RE A FACT WE'D TALK ABOUT PERCENTAGES OKAY I'LL OKAY I'LL SAY PERCENTAGES IF IT MAKES YOU MORE COMFORTABLE I MEAN EVERYONE'S USING EITHER USE PERCENT OR USE THE POINTS, BUT OKAY I WAS TRYING TO KEEP IT THE SAME NOMENCLATURE OKAY. IT'S EQUIVALENT. WE'LL DO IT AS FLOOR OR PERCENTAGE. IT'S 90 OF 23 OF THEM ARE OVER 90%. FIVE OF THEM IN THE YELLOW ARE UNDER 90% IN

[02:10:11]

THE FA ONLY TALKS ABOUT THE BUILDING. SO WHEN WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED, WE FOUND SIX OF THOSE. THE STORY WAS IT HAD A LOW FA PRECISELY BECAUSE A LARGE PORTION OF THE SITE WAS BEING USED FOR RV AND BOAT STORAGE. SO WE HAVE TWO OF THEM, STAFFORD AND ROBBINSVILLE, THAT HAD LOWER THAN 90% FA, WHERE THE EXPLANATION WASN'T AN OBVIOUS ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINT OR OBVIOUS RV PARKING AREA. USING THE SITE THAT DROVE IT, ROBBINSVILLE THE STORY IS A COMPLICATED ONE. IT'S A LOT IN A MULTI-USE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, AND THERE'S A LOT OF GRADING THAT GOES FOR AN OFF TRACT BASIN THAT USES UP SOME OF THE LAND. AND STAFFORD JUST HAS A LOW FA. I DON'T HAVE A GOOD STORY FOR IT, SO THAT'S WHY I SAID THAT WE, I DIDN'T EDIT OUT THE ONES THAT I DIDN'T LIKE. THEY'RE ACTUALLY ON HERE, THERE ARE A COUPLE THAT I COULDN'T EXPLAIN, BUT WHAT YOU'RE GETTING TO IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM, 28, ALREADY HAVE AN FA ABOVE WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE. ANOTHER SIX HAVE A LOWER FA, BUT THE EXPLANATION IS OBVIOUS. IT'S THE RV AND BOAT PARKING AREA, AND TWO THAT HAVE LOWER FA THAT HAVE AWKWARD OR NO EXPLANATION ASSOCIATED WITH THEM, I DIDN'T DO AVERAGES. I DON'T THINK AVERAGES OR MEDIANS HELP HERE. I THINK THE IMPORTANT PART IS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS THEY'RE ALL OVER WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE IS NOT ATYPICAL FOR THE SELF-STORAGE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE WORKED ON. OKAY, OKAY, I THINK THAT THE HOMEWORK THAT WENT WITH THIS, IN ADDITION TO THAT WAS SUPPLEMENTING MY ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY AS IT RELATED TO THE FA VARIANCE, I TOUCHED ON THESE LAST TIME, I BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A NEED FOR THE USE, THAT THE SITE ITSELF HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED BEING OFF THE CORRIDOR IS NOT PARTICULARLY SUITED FOR THE OTHER PERMITTED USES. THIS IS A LOW IMPACT USE. AND THE BUILDING ITSELF, ITS FACADE AND ITS SETBACK WOULD BE PERMITTED FOR OTHER USES IN THE DISTRICT. ESSENTIALLY, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IN THE FA IS ALLOWING BUILDING DEPTH TO GET DEEPER AND CONVERT WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PARKING LOT FOR A COMMERCIAL BEHIND THE BUILDING TO BUILDING SPACE THAT'S ACTUALLY USABLE FOR SELF STORAGE. IT'S NOT THAT IT'S GOING WE'RE NOT OVER DEVELOPING THE SITE, WE'RE JUST CONVERTING WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PARKING FOR ANOTHER USE IN THIS DISTRICT. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO BUILDING SPACE BEHIND THE FACADE. IT OUR VARIANCE DOESN'T IMPACT THE FACADE ITSELF, IT'S SIMPLY THE DEPTH OF THE BUILDIN. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE THIS EVENING. THAT WAS THE LAST PIECE OF HOMEWORK. PUBLIC GREAT. MR. VANCAMP TESTIFIED BEFORE AND EVERYONE QUESTIONED HIM ON HIS PRIOR TESTIMONY. SO MY ADVICE TO THE BOARD IS TO LIMIT QUESTIONS TO THE TESTIMONY THAT HE HAS JUST GIVEN, SINCE THEY ALREADY QUESTIONED HIM ON HIS PRIOR TESTIMONY. THAT'S MY ADVICE TO THE BOARD, MR. CHAIRMAN. YEAH, I THINK I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY GIVEN THAT TESTIMONY PREVIOUSLY AND WE'VE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC NOW, WITH THAT BEING SAID, I'LL OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC FOR ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC DATA SET OR ANYTHING. THIS TESTIMONY OR ANYTHING THAT HE SAID, SAID

[02:15:02]

THEN YOU CAN ASK ANOTHER OR A FOLLOW UP QUESTION. AND CAN YOU SIT DOWN SO THAT MIKE PICKS YOU UP BETTER? OKAY. I'VE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO. I THINK IT'S IMPOLITE TO SIT WHEN MY QUESTIONER HAS TO STAND. SO I'M OLD SCHOOL I. BUT SINCE I WAS TOLD TO SIT, I WILL SIT. I APPRECIATE THE DECORUM. THANK YOU FOR IT. IT'S MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE. I'M SORRY, THE CHEAT ITSELF LISTS THE TOWN IN WHICH IT'S LOCATED. AND FOR THOSE THAT WERE PERMITTED BY ZONING, THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT IT WAS IN. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE. LET ME FINISH MY SENTENCE SO YOU CAN SEE BY THE ZONING DISTRICTS THAT SOME ARE IN INDUSTRIAL ZONES, COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS, INTERMODAL, VARIOUS MIXED USE DISTRICTS, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, NONE OF THESE ARE IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. OKAY. THAT'LL DO. THANK YOU. THE ONLY OCCUPANT, 118 WASHINGTON STREET, ROCKY HILL, FOR THE COLUMN INDICATING APPROVAL, TYPE, DO THOSE LISTING VARIANTS INCLUDE. ARE THEY ALL USE VARIANCES? YES. OKAY. FOR THOSE LISTED REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.

WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THAT. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, THAT'S A PROCESS IN NEW JERSEY BY WHICH THE GOVERNING BODY ANALYZES AN AREA, DETERMINES THAT IT'S AN AREA IN NEED OF REDEVELOPMENT.

AND DEVELOPS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE PLANNING BOARD, A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, SUPERSEDES THE ZONING. SO IT'S A NEW PERMITTED USES FOR ATTRACTIVE LAND THROUGH A DIFFERENT PROCESS. BUT PUT IT THIS WAY, IF IT SAYS REDEVELOPMENT PLAN, DOES THAT MEAN IT WAS A PERMITTED USE UNDER THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.

YES. OKAY. SO BY RIGHT. YEAH. I MEAN YOU CAN'T GET A USE VARIANCE IN A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN. I UNDERSTAND THAT'S WHY. YES. AND FOR THOSE INDICATING PERMITTED LIKE PERMITTED AGRICULTURAL OR RA4, THAT MEANS IT WAS APPROVED. NO LET'S DOES WHEN YOU SAY PERMITTED ZONE B3, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE SELF-STORAGE WAS PERMITTED IN THE B3 ZONE? YES AND WHEN YOU SAY ANYTIME YOU SAY PERMITTED AND YOU IDENTIFY THE ZONE, I ASSUME UNLESS YOU TELL ME DIFFERENTLY, THAT MEANS THAT IT WAS A PERMITTED USE IN THAT ZONE. YES. SO ANYTHING THAT SAYS PERMITTED THE SITE PLAN APPLICATION WENT TO THE PLANNING BOARD. IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY.

AND THEN I'M SORRY. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE NET FAR COLUMN? ONE MORE TIME AND HOW THAT WAS DERIVED? YES FOR THE ONES IN YELLOW, WHERE WE HAD A LOWER FAR THAN WHAT WAS PROPOSED HERE, WE DIDN'T NEED TO STUDY THE OTHER SITES THAT WERE ALREADY LARGER. I THEN LOOKED AT THE INDIVIDUAL APPROVAL AND THE LOD IS THE LIMIT OF DISTURBANCE. THIS IS THE AREA OF THE SITE ACTUALLY IMPACTED NOT JUST BY THE DEVELOPMENT, BUT BY ITS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND GRADING AND EVERYTHING THAT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED ON THAT SITE. SO I TOOK THAT LAND AREA AND CALCULATED THE FLOOR AREA RATIO OVER THE LIMIT OF DISTURBANCE AS THE ACREAGE AND LEFT OUT THE WETLANDS, WETLAND BUFFER, RIPARIAN, THE LAND THAT COULDN'T BE DEVELOPED OR DISTURBED. SO THERE ARE LOTS OF, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY BUYS TEN ACRES AND DEVELOPS FIVE. SO IN ALL OF THOSE CASES, THEY WERE HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. THEY WERE ALL PERMITTED AS OF RIGHT. NO COLOR IS SIMPLY THE DISCUSSION PERMITTED IS BOLD IN THE APPROVAL TYPE COLUMN. OKAY. SO USING THE PISCATAWAY EXAMPLE THE USE VARIANCE WAS REQUIRED. I'M SORRY. LET ME CATCH UP TO YOU.

YOU PISCATAWAY OKAY. LIKE 123 FOURTH LINE DOWN PISCATAWAY WAS A USE VARIANCE. THERE WERE 3.73 ACRES. YEP AND YOU NETTED OUT 0.95 BECAUSE OF THE BUFFER. NO, NO THE NETTED OUT WOULD HAVE BEEN 3.73 -3.09. AS THE ACREAGE OF LAND? 3.73 IS THE GROSS TRACT AREA. PISCATAWAY FAR SAYS 79%

[02:20:08]

HE WASN'T LOOKING. OH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT DEVELOPING THIS, BUT IT'S UNENCUMBERED. HE'S HIS TESTIMONY IS THAT THESE 36 SITES OR NOT 36. EVERYTHING IN YELLOW. THE LIMIT OF DISTURBANCE MEANT THAT'S THE AMOUNT OF LAND THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED. THAT'S HIS TESTIMONY. AND LET ME EXPLAIN WHY. BECAUSE IF I JUST DID ENCUMBERED LAND, SOME OF THESE HAD WETLAND PERMITS THAT ALLOWED AVERAGING. SO I INCLUDED IN LIMIT OF DISTURBANCE. THE DEVELOPABLE SITE OF A WETLAND AVERAGING THAT SORT OF THING. LAST QUESTION IS, WERE ANY FACILITIES ASIDE FROM THE ROBBINSVILLE LOCATION, WHICH ISN'T EVEN IN THE TRADE AREA LIKE STUDIED? I'M SORRY. YES BY THIS DO THAT AGAIN. SO YOU REPRESENTED YOUR TESTIMONY THAT ALL OF THE EXPERTS THAT HAVE TESTIFIED WORKED ON THESE PROJECTS? YES. SO IS THAT THE REASON WHY NONE OF THE OTHER LOCATIONS WITHIN THE FIVE MILE TRADE WERE FURTHER STUDIED? WELL, TWO ANSWERS. YES. YES I DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THE EXPERTS WORKED ON THE OLDER SITES IN THE FIVE MILE CIRCLE. AND I EXPLICITLY ELIMINATED NON, CLIMATE CONTROLLED SITES. SO I BELIEVE YOU HEARD IN THE EARLIER TESTIMONY THAT THOSE WERE OF THE OLDER STYLE, THE ONE STORY DRIVE UPS, THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND THEY'RE NOT PART OF THIS UNIVERSE. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. THANK YOU. MR. TYPEKIT. NO MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC. NO QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC. GO AHEAD. OKAY EXPERTS. THAT'S ONE QUESTION. HI, SO MY QUESTION IS, AND IS THERE ANY DISCERNIBLE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE 36 SITES IN TERMS OF, THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE MARKET AREA? SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD IF YOU WOULD POPULATION DENSITY SERVED PER SQUARE FOOTAGE OR AVAILABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE, WOULD THAT BE SIMILAR BETWEEN THESE 36 SITES? IS THERE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT DEMAND FOR, SELF-STORAGE WOULD BE BASED ON THE POPULATION DENSITY WITHIN A FIVE MILE RADIUS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? NO. I THINK WE'RE MIXING APPLES AND ORANGES. GOING BACK TO MY TESTIMONY LAST TIME, I THINK WE'RE IN A POCKET, OF VERY LIMITED, CLIMATE CONTROLLED SERVICE FOR A HIGH POPULATION, SO THAT THERE'S HIGH DEMAND HERE. BUT IN TERMS OF CONNECTING THAT TO FLOOR AREA RATIO, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A CONNECTIO, I THINK DEMAND IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR D1 PROOFS, AND IN AN INPUT INTO OUR FA PROOFS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT DRIVES THE FA

[02:25:09]

YEAH I JUST I UNDERSTAND YOU KNOW WE'RE HITTING 931 AND I'M FORGETTING MY WORDS. SO WELL I AS WILL COME OUT OF THIS LIST HAVING BEEN EVERYTHING WE TOUCHED AND ME NOT EDITING IT, THERE ARE INDEED A COUPLE OF FACILITIES UNDER 100,000, MY EXPERIENCE AS A PLANNER IS THE 100,000 IS ABOUT THE MINIMUM, THAT NEW SELF-STORAGE FACILITIES GO IN AT, I WAS SURPRISED TO FIND 2 OR 3 ON THIS LIST THAT ARE SMALLER THAN THAT, BUT THAT CAME TO ME AS A SURPRISE. BUT THAT'S FROM A MANAGEMENT AND OPERATIONS PERSPECTIVE. NOT IN TERMS OF DEMAND, IN TERMS OF DEMAND. I THINK YOU COULD LITERALLY HAVE TWO FACILITIES IN THIS MARKET AREA, AND YOU STILL WOULDN'T HIT THE LIMIT OF, OF, OF, OF DEMAND. SO I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO LET DEMAND BE THE DRIVER, WE HAVE A LARGER F.A.R, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THE MAN BE THE DRIVER.

THERE'S THE PHYSICAL CONSTRAINTS OF THE SITE AND THE LOCATION, AND THE CONTEXT OF THE SITE.

OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION. THANK YOU SIR. GREAT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE. SO MAYBE WE'LL START WITH JOHN'S PREVIOUS QUESTION ABOUT, COVERAGE RATIO IF QUESTIONED ABOUT MAXIMUM LOT COVERAGE, IS APPROPRIATE HERE. YEAH. AS I UNDERSTAND IT. AND AS I ADDRESSED IN IN PRIOR TESTIMONY, THE EXISTING SITE IS ALREADY AT 65.3, SO WE HAVE A SITE IN WHICH THE REDEVELOPMENT IS GIVING US AN OPPORTUNITY TO REDUCE THE IMPERVIOUS. WE'RE COMING DOWN TO 58.3. SO HE WANTS TO KNOW WHY CAN'T YOU GO TO 55 AND COMPLY AND GET RID OF THE VARIANCE? THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING. WELL OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT THE DEVELOPER, BUT FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS IMPROVING THE SITUATION THROUGH THIS REDEVELOPMENT. OKAY. AS A PLANNER, IF YOU IMPROVED IT FURTHER, WOULDN'T THAT BE A GOOD THING? YEAH FROM A PLANNING. NO, I DON'T NECESSARILY 65, SIR. YOU ASKED ME A QUESTION. LET ME ANSWER, I DON'T THINK LESS OF A USE IS AUTOMATICALLY A GOOD THING. NO. DO YOU THINK LESS IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE AND TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE IS A BETTER THING THAN HAVING 58.5? WHEN YOU CAN GET TO 55, YOU DON'T THINK 55 IS BETTER, A BETTER PLANNING OBJECTIVE TO HAVE LESS IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE ON A SITE? I DON'T KNOW. OKAY. THAT'S HIS ANSWER. GOT IT? YEAH. MARILYN, PLEASE. WHAT IS THE CLOSEST RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA FOR THESE OTHER TOWNS, WHAT IS THE CLOSEST RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY WITH RESPECT TO THE SOME OF THESE OTHER FACILITIES? DON'T HAVE A MAP. OH. OTHER FACILITIES. I'M SORRY. NO, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. DANCING ON ONE FOOT. I KNOW THERE ARE SOME OF THESE THAT HAVE RESIDENTIAL IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT, BUT. BUT I DON'T WANT TO TESTIFY ABOUT THEM OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. THAT IF YOU WANT ME TO DO A LIST LIKE THAT, THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE SOME STUDY. I, I THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS THINK. I'LL PUT IT THIS WAY. IF YOU'RE TELLING THEM THAT YOU THINK IT WILL BE USEFUL, DO YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT EVERYONE ELSE FEELS BUT THIS BOARD MEMBER IS TELLING YOU IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO HER TO KNOW. I WANT THE BOARD TO STRAW POLL ITSELF ON WHETHER THEY WANT THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OR NOT. I SENSE FROM THE PRIOR WITNESS THAT YOU KNOW, DON'T. IF I WAS SAYING THAT, I WOULD PULL THE WHOLE BOARD, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A BOARD MEMBER SAYING IT, YOU WANT I NEED TO HEAR FROM ANYONE ELSE ON THAT ISSUE OR NOT, YES. IN TERMS OF SCOPE OF

[02:30:05]

OKAY. THAT I CAN DO FRONT BACK SIDE. YEP OKAY. ALL RIGHT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW FOR THIS WITNESS. I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION, PLEASE. MIKE, SO JUST AT A HIGH LEVEL FIRST, I'M NOTICING A LOT OF THESE ARE THE KIND OF NEW YORK CITY METROPOLITAN AREA. IS THAT WHERE THE DEMAND IS, OR IS THAT WHERE YOUR WORK IS FOCUSED? IT'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE ARE DRIVING DEMAND. SO PUT IT THIS WAY ON THIS CHART OF 36. YES. THESE ARE WHERE YOUR ENGINEER AND YOUR ARCHITECT WORKED. YES. CORRECT. YEAH THAT'S TRUE. THANK YOU. RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S THE ANSWER. YEAH. AND THE ONE THAT THAT DOES SEEM GLARINGLY NOT IN, IN A METROPOLITAN AREA. SPRINGFIELD I SEE THERE THERE'S NO APPROVAL TYPE LISTED. WAS THAT, ALLOWED. YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE WITH A HIGH F.A.R. I IT'S SIMPLY BLANK BECAUSE I DIDN'T FIND THE ANSWER IN TIME FOR THE HEARING. I WILL CONTINUE TO FIGURE THAT ONE OUT SINCE I'M COMING BACK, AND FRANKLY, AS I LOOK AT THESE, I SEE A WHOLE BUNCH OF DEEP SOUTH JERSEY IN HERE, TOO. SO I GOT SAYREVILLE, LITTLE EGG, STAFFORD, MANALAPAN. RIGHT. YEAH THEY TEND TO BE THE ONES WITH THE LOWER F.A.R. THAT'S WHY I WAS LOOKING AT THE WELL, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE BOAT AND RV STORAGE HAPPENING TOO. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH. SO ARE YOU PREPARED TO HAVE THESE GUYS COME BACK NO? BUT I WILL TELL YOU NO, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO COME BACK WITH THIS ADDITIONAL. AND. BUT WHEN YOU COME BACK. RIGHT, THEY ALREADY HAVE ONE THING THAT THE BOARD WANTS. BUT UNLESS THE BOARD DISAGREES WITH ME, HE SAID HE DID A YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIKE AN UNDERLYING STUDY. YEAH. THERE'S AN ACTUAL MARKET STUDY. WE NEED TO HAVE THEM MARKET STUDY WITH 197 PROPERTIES SUBMITTED. AND DON'T BRING IT LIKE YEAH, OF COURSE THE DAY OF THE HEARING, SUBMIT IT. EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE APPROVED, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SUBMITTED TEN DAYS AHEAD. TECHNICALLY, THE BOARD RULES SAY THAT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE SUBMITTED 21 DAYS AHEAD. SO THE BOARD PROFESSIONALS HAVE TIME TO REVIEW IT AND ISSUE REPORTS ON IT. BUT. I FIRST OF ALL, WHEN IS THE NEXT AVAILABLE HEARING DATE? BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT WHEN TO SUBMIT IT? SEPTEMBER 20TH SIX. SEPTEMBER SEPTEMBER 26TH. SEPTEMBER 26TH. SO THAT IS 30 DAYS FROM NOW. SO CAN YOU ASK THOSE GUYS THAT ARE PRESUMABLY OUT IN THE HALL, CAN THEY GET THIS STUFF TOGETHER WITHIN TEN DAYS SO THEY CAN SUBMIT IT 21 DAYS AHEAD, OR DO THEY NEED 20 DAYS SO THEY CAN SUBMIT IT TEN DAYS AHEAD? YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE AT MAHAL? I THINK MR. VAN CAMP'S GOING TO GO OUT THERE AND ASK THEM. OH, THEY'RE IN THE BACK. OKAY ANALYSIS OF THE BOARD OKAY. SO WE'RE ON THE WRONG TIME. OKAY. AND MR. VAN CAMP, CAN YOU GET THE STUFF SUBMITTED? YOU'RE SUBMITTED 21 DAYS AHEAD. YES OKAY. GREAT. SO THE HEARING IN THIS MATTER IS BEING CONTINUED TO SEPTEMBER 26TH WITHOUT THE NEED FOR FURTHER NOTICE. AND THE SUBMISSIONS ARE GOING TO BE MADE 21 DAYS AHEAD OF THAT DATE. AND AT THE JUNE HEARING SESSION. YES, THE APPLICANT EXTENDED THE TIME FOR THE BOARD TO DECIDE THE APPLICATION TO OCTOBER 31ST. SO YEAH. SO HOLD ON ONE SECOND IF WE COULD. WE'RE SAYING WE CAN'T. WE CAN'T MEET THAT 21 DAYS

[02:35:06]

WOULD, THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED AT,

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.