[00:00:01] TWO GOOD. WE ARE YES, GREAT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, EVERYONE FOR COMING ON THIS 93 DAYS, [I. ROLL CALL] CHRISTMAS AND INDUSTRY EVENING, BUT I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE ALL THE PUBLIC WHO COMES OUT THEN, UH, AND WITNESSES THE BOARD IS THE MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP ZONING BOARD MEETING. MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP, SOMERSET, NEW JERSEY. REGULAR MEETING HELD ON DECEMBER 22ND 2022 AT SEVEN PM UM, JUST AS AN ANNOUNCEMENT THERE WILL BE NO NEW APPLICATIONS AFTER 10 PM THE TIME IS NOW SEVEN O'CLOCK. TO START THE MEETING. UH UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS, ACT NOTICE IN TIME AND PLACE OF THIS MEETING HAD BEEN POSTED AND SENSITIVE. OFFICIALLY DESIGNATED NEWS PAPERS. SHERRY, CAN YOU CALL THE ROLL, PLEASE? ROSENTHAL MOUSSAVI SKI SING. WALMART WOULD FRONT. TO MAKE IT D D. YEP ABLE TO MAKE IT DRILL SULLIVAN. YES SENDING IN FOR MR DOHERTY. THANK YOU. I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE ATTENDANCE ON THIS ON THIS DAY SHOW. AMY WILL YOU LEAD US TO SUIT THE SUIT TO EFFECT YES, THE FLAG. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. REPUBLIC STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD. INDIVISIBLE LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. RIGHT, UH, SO THIS IS THE PART [III.PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA] OF THE MEETING. WHERE THAT I SAY EVERY TIME AND USUALLY NO. NOBODY HAS ANY COMMENTS DURING THIS PART. UM, BUT IT IS A PUBLIC COMMENT SESSION. BUT I WANT TO QUALIFY THAT THIS. THIS PUBLIC COMMENTS SESSION ARE FOR ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON TODAY'S AGENDA. UM, THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC COMMENT SESSION FOR THE ITEMS DURING EACH EACH ITEM ON THE AGENDA, BUT WE HAVE TO OPEN THE APPLICATION BEFORE THERE'S A PUBLIC COMMENT SESSION AND THOSE SO THIS IS AN OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT ANYBODY IS FREE AND WELCOME TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS SO OPEN THAT SESSION NOW. GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COME ON UP. COME ON, UP TO THE MICROPHONE. PLEASE COME UP. HMM YOU CAN YOU PLEASE COME UP, COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD AND GIVE YOUR ADDRESS. SCHNEIDER DAVIS AND I LIVE AT 3 22 SUNSET ROAD. JUST YOU MAY NOT HAVE HEARD MY OPENING STATEMENT, BUT THIS IS FOR ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON TODAY'S AGENDA. WE ARE GOING TO BE OPEN. TODAY'S AGENDA. I WANT TO KNOW WHY I RECEIVED THIS TWO DAYS AGO FOR A SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING TONIGHT AT SEVEN O'CLOCK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I'M SORRY. WHAT IS THIS? THIS IS A NOTICE TO COME TO THIS MEETING. CAN I SEE THE NOTICE? POLICE? IT'S WHAT WHAT? OKAY THIS IS AN TONIGHT'S AGENDA. SO WHEN THAT ITEM IS CALLED, THEN YOU'LL BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE MATTER IS CALLED BECAUSE IT'S A MATTER ON THE AGENDA. JUDGE. BUT I THINK THE QUESTION MIGHT BE UNDERSTAND. WONDERFUL. YEAH. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT NOTICE WAS SENT BY THE TOWNSHIP. IS THAT IS THAT CORRECT? SHERRY THAT I DON'T IT WAS RIGHT? I. WELL, THAT THAT THAT THAT MAY BE TRUE THE PROPER NOTIFICATIONS FOR THE APPLICATION THAT WE WILL BE SEEING. FROM THIS AGENDA WERE SENT. IS THAT CORRECT NOTICE THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON THE KEVIN RATIONS WOULD MIND TREATMENT CENTER APPLICATION. I JUST DON'T KNOW IT CAN THE ATTORNEY FOR WOULD MIND STAND UP , PLEASE, CAN YOU? I SUGGEST YOU GO BACK AND ASK HIM BECAUSE HIS OFFICE SENT THE NOTICE. MY HOME. HIS OFFICE SHOULD HAVE SENT A NOTICE TO ALL PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN 200 FT OF THE PROPERTY THAT THAT WAS THAT TO SHERRY. PLEASE SHOW THE NOTICE TO SHERRY, PLEASE. SO AGAIN. THIS IS THE ADDRESS AGAIN. WHAT'S YOUR ADDRESS? WE WANT TO ASCERTAIN IF YOU'RE WITHIN 200 FT, AND THEY GAVE YOU THE NOTICE OR IF ONE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS GAVE YOU A COPY OF THE NOTICE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE WILL GET TO THE ITEM THAT EVERYBODY'S HERE FOR, AND WE WILL GET THERE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. UM AND I DO APPRECIATE THE PUBLIC COMING OUT TO THESE MEETINGS. IT GETS HARD. HI CAN I [00:05:03] GO ON THE NEXT CASE? UM ALL RIGHT. SO THE FIRST CASE THAT WILL BE EDUCATING IS THE CASE. BE A TAX ZERO TO TECH TO THE APPLICANT IS GOLDEN BISON INVESTMENTS LLC, THIS FOR BLOCK 11002, LOTS, 14 AND 15. ON 59 ZION WORDS VILLE ROAD. THIS IS TO HEAR ABOUT BULK VARIANCES TO CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITION ON EXISTING RESIDENTIAL DWELLINGS. THE EXPIRATION OF THIS APPLICATION WAS ON 307 2023. THE UPDATED NOTIFICATION OF PUBLICATION WAS REQUIRED. HOWEVER THE ABOVE APPLICATION HAS BEEN CARRIED TO THE JANUARY 2024 MEETING. 2023. AH OF THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND NO NUDIST. NO, NO. NO NOTICES WILL BE SERVED TO THE MONTGOMERY [V. APPLICATION] TOWNSHIP PROPERTY OWNERS FOR THAT MEETING. UH THE NEXT APPLICATIONS CASE BE A 05. BACK TO THE APPLICANT IS PRINCETON MONTESSORI. A SOCIETY IS ON BLOCK 32 001 LOT 24 01. 47 CHERRY VALLEY ROAD IS A MAJOR SITE PLAN AND USE VARIANTS TO ADD TO THE 769 SQUARE FOOT STORAGE FIXTURE CLASSROOM ADDITION TO THE EXISTING SCHOOL BUILDING. THE EXPIRATION DATE IS OF THIS NOTICES OF MARCH. 9 2023 AFFIDAVIT AND NOTIFICATION AND PUBLICATION IS REQUIRED. I'D LIKE TO BEFORE THAT HAPPENED BEFORE. MR SCHATZ, MAN STARTS AT APPLICATION. WE LOOK YOU UP. YOU'RE NOT WITHIN 200 FT OF THE PROPERTY, SO IT WAS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE YOU THAT. SO APPARENTLY ONE OF THE NEIGHBORS WHO GOT THAT NOTICE. PUT IT IN YOUR MAILBOX, SO THERE WAS NO REQUIREMENT UNDER LAW TO GIVE YOU A NOTICE SO THAT THE BOARD DID NOT GIVE YOU THE NOTICE. THE APPLICANT DID NOT GIVE YOU THE NOTICE ONE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS PUT IT IN YOUR MAILBOX, THOUGH IT CONCERNS THEIR LAWS IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, DEFINING THE NOTICES THAT RESIDENTIAL STREET RIGHT MAN, IF YOU WANT, YOU CAN STAY. YOU CAN COMMENT. BUT BUT NOT RIGHT NOW. WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT APPLICATION. AT THIS POINT. YOU WEREN'T LEGALLY YOU WEREN'T LEGALLY REPORT THERE WAS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT YOU GET NOTICED. YOU'RE BOTH TALKING . I CAN'T REALLY HEAR PEOPLE TALKING. I'M SORRY. THE CHAIR. I'LL CONTROL THE MEETING. SO I I'M SORRY. THERE'S NO WAY THAT YOU CAN MAKE A COMMENT AT PRESENT BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT OPENED THE APPLICATION. FOR THIS MEETING, SO I CANNOT HEAR ANY TESTIMONY PRIOR TO NO, I CANNOT MAKE A COMMENT. NOW. HOW CAN I PUT MY COMMENT? IN WHEN I HAVE TO LEAVE AND GO SEE MY DAUGHTER SING AT THE HIGH SCHOOL. YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER IF YOU CAN ANSWER, OKAY? THERE'S NOTHING THE BOARD CAN DO FOR YOU. IF THE APPLICANT THE APPLICATION DOESN'T FINISH TONIGHT. IT WILL BE CARRIED AND YOU'LL HAVE A CHANCE IF THE APPLICATION IF THE APPLICATION FINISHES TONIGHT, YOU WILL NOT HAVE A CHANCE IF YOU DON'T STAY, BUT I JUST WANT TO REPEAT ONE MORE TIME THERE WAS WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. THERE WAS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT THE APPLICANT GIVE YOU NOTICE BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIVE WITHIN 200 FT. IF ONE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS PUT THAT IN YOUR MAILBOX IT'S THE BOARD DIDN'T DO IT. THE APPLICANT DIDN'T DO IT. THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO FOR YOU. MR SHOTS, MAN. YOU CAN OPEN YOUR APPLICATION. THANK YOU SO MUCH. YES RICHARD SHOTS. MAN, ATTORNEY FOR THE AFRICAN AND SOON WE HAVE JURISDICTION. YES MR CHAPMAN. CAN YOU PULL THAT MICROPHONE DOWN CLOSER TO YOUR MOUTH? SURE. WORKS. I HOPE HERE YOU HEAR ME NOW WE CAN WHERE THE PRINCE AND MONASTERY SCHOOL IS WANTS TO ADD A 769 SQUARE FOOT STORAGE ROOM. BUT NOT FOR A FUTURE CLASSROOM. ME APPLICANT WILL MANY APPLICATION YOU WILL NEVER BE A CLASSROOM LEAH STORAGE ROOM AND WE WANT TO RELOCATE ONE OF THE ENTRANCES TO THE SCHOOL AND THEIR ADDITIONAL RESTROOM FACILITIES, SO HE'S NEED A USE FOR ITS BECAUSE SECTION 16 AND HYPHEN 4.2, A OF THE MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE. PART FIVE. PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE ALLOWED IN THE OR FIVE ZONE. WHICH THIS IS IN, HOWEVER, THEY MUST BE LICENSED BY THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT PRINCETON MONTESSORI SCHOOL IS NOT LICENSED BY THE STATE IN NEW JERSEY, BECAUSE IT HAS NEXT ROOMS. IT DOESN'T COMPLY. OTHERWISE IT COMPLIES WITH THE USE IN THE ARM FIVE ZONE. WE ALSO ARE LOOKING FOR, UH UH HUH. DESIGN WAIVER FOR SECTION SIX FROM SIX AND 16-5 63 OF THE AUDITS WHERE WE'RE JUST DOING LANDSCAPING FOR THE AREA DISTURBED, IN FACT, THE [00:10:01] TESTIMONY WILL COME OUT. WE'RE PUTTING IN MORE TREES BECAUSE OF LAUREN WAS ALLOW SKI WHO'S YOUR OPEN SPACE COORDINATOR, SUGGESTED WE DO THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT. WE'RE ALSO SEEKING RELIEF. 16 HIGH FROM 45 14 C ONE DEITY ORDINANCE HAS WE'RE NOT PROVIDING ANY SIDEWALKS ALONG CHERRY VALLEY ROAD AND LIKEWISE , WE'RE NOT PROVIDING ANY STREET TREES ALONG SECTION 56. 16 HIGH FOR 5.60 15 OF THE ORDINANCE, WHICH REQUIRES SWEET. STREET TREES FOR EVERY 50 FT. BEFORE THAT WE HAVE ASKING FOR SUBMISSION WAIVERS AND THE SUBMISSION WAIVERS ARE NO E I S WHICH IS REQUIRED UNDER THE ORDINANCE, SINCE WE'RE ONLY ASKING FOR A SMALL 769 FT STORAGE ROOM. AND FOR A TRAFFIC, BUT FORTUNATELY, JOE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO, UH, NEED, UH, WE DIDN'T SUPPLY A TRAFFIC REPORT BECAUSE AS A STORAGE ROOM, THERE WILL BE NO MORE TRAFFIC. MHM. THE PROPERTY IS ON THE NORTHERN SIDE OF CHERRY VALLEY ROAD. AND BY THE APPLICANT AND SLOWING AS LOCK 24 POINT. OH, ONE BLOCK 32,001 ON THE MONTGOMERY TAX MAP. WE HAVE THREE WITNESSES TONIGHT, MR THOMAS DEKKER FOR VAN CLEEF, WHO'S OUR SITE? ENGINEER. MR RALPH ANDREW DAR, WHO IS THE, UH. THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE SCHOOL THAT TAKES CARE OF, YOU KNOW, SPACE AND ALL THAT. AND MARK YARRINGTON, THE ARCHITECT. SO THE FIRST WITNESS WILL BE RALPH. ON YOUR JAR. YOU WANT TO COME UP , RALPH. I'D LIKE TO GET ALL THE WITNESSES SWORN IN. OKAY PLEASE STAND UP. SO MR WILKINS, WERE YOU IN ON, INCLUDING THE BOARD WITNESSES, PLEASE. RISE. THANK YOU. EVERYONE. RAISE THE RIGHT HAND. DOES EVERYONE SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE IN THIS MATTER WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. CAN YOU PLEASE START OVER HERE? COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD . SPELL YOUR LAST NAME, GIVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE APPLICANT OR THE BOARD AS THE CASE MAY BE. MARK YERINGTON, ARCHITECT YERINGTON ARCHITECTURAL GROUP. UM YOUR LAST NAME A DOUBLE R I N G T O N. OKAY. NEXT. GOOD EVENING. TOM DECKER, D E. C K E. R WITH VAN CLEEF ENGINEERING THE SITE ENGINEER. OKAY YOU'RE THE APPLICANT ENGINEERING EXPERT. CORRECT CORRECT. RALPH AND EAGER A N D U. J. A R AND THE FACILITY MANAGER AT THE SCHOOL. CAN I USE THIS? YES, YOU CAN. MICHAEL SULLIVAN, CLARK, KATE AND HINTS BOARD PLANNER. HAVE ANY LOPEZ ENVIRONMENTAL RESOLUTIONS BOARD ENGINEER AND JOSEPH FISHING ER WITH BRIGHT VIEW ENGINEERING. I'M THE TOWN'S TRAFFIC ENGINEER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. EVERYONE SURE. MR ANDREW, ARE YOU WANT TO AGAIN. REPEAT WHAT YOUR POSITION IS WITH THE APPLICANT FACILITY MANAGER. OKAY, AND THIS IS BEING DONE UNDER YOUR SUPERVISION. CORRECT YES. YOU WANT TO TELL THE BOARD AND THE AUDIENCE WHO'S INTERESTED WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS FOR TONIGHT'S APPLICATION. WE'RE GOING TO USE THE STORAGE AREA FOR THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE IN A STORED IN THE ROOM ADJACENT TO THE ROOM. THAT WAY. WE CAN USE THAT ROOM BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'LL USE IT AS A CLASSROOM. THIS WAY. WE CAN TAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF THAT CLASSROOM, PUT IT IN THERE AND THEY CAN USE IT DURING THE DAY. OTHERWISE IT'S NOT BEING USED. WHAT IS THE ITEMS YOU STORING? IT'S A CLASSROOM FIXTURES, SHELVES, BOOKS, TABLES, CHAIRS. AND EVEN THOUGH ON THE ARCHITECTURAL PLANS THAT WERE SUBMITTED WITH THE APPLICATION, IT SAYS, FUTURE CLASSROOM IS THAT IN THE FUTURE FOR THIS ROOM THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR APPROVAL TONIGHT FOR NO, I THINK IT'S TOO SMALL FOR CLASSROOM, SO IT'S FAR AS YOUR CONCERN YOU WILL STAY FOR THE BOARD'S EDIFICATION THAT IT WILL NEVER BE USED AS A CLASSROOM AND MY CORRECT AND THAT STATEMENT, CORRECT, OKAY? AND THAT'S IN SPITE OF WHAT THE ORCHID TEXTURAL PLANTS AND MY CORRECT YES. AND WHAT ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL FACILITIES FOR LABORATORIES? WHICH WOULD WE DOING THERE? THE REASON FOR THE BATHROOM IS WHEN THE CHILDREN THAT ROOM ADJACENT TO IT IF THE CHILDREN HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM. THERE'S TWO TEACHERS IN THERE. ONE TEACHER HAS TO LEAVE THE ROOM WITH THE CHILD. GO DOWN THE HALLWAY TO THE [00:15:04] BATHROOM. THIS WAY. THE TEACHER CAN STAY THERE AND WATCH THE CHILD IN THE BATHROOM IN THE SAME AREA. OKAY AND THE OTHER THING IS FOR CONVENIENCE. YOU'RE RELOCATING A ENTRANCE WAY TO THIS AREA. MY CORRECT? YES THERE'S AN ENTRANCE ALREADY. THERE WERE JUST MOVING A LITTLE BIT, AND PREVIOUSLY I BELIEVE IN 2009. YOU WERE BEFORE THE SPORT AND YOU GOT APPROVAL FOR BASICALLY LARGER EDITION. I THINK IT WAS 3079 SQUARE FEET. FOR 3097 SQUARE FEET FOR A LARGER EDITION. CORRECT WHAT? YOU'RE NOT BUILDING THAT LARGER EDITION OF MY CORRECT AND THAT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, OKAY? AND YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO BUILD THAT THIS FORWARD, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS I KNOW, WE'RE NOT ALL RIGHT. SO YOU'RE IN THE IN IN THAT PLACE. YOU'RE PUTTING THIS, UH, 769 SQUARE FOOT STORAGE AREA? YES, OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR ANDRIANA? YEAH, I DO. REGARDING THE YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE EMPTYING OUT STORAGE FROM A CLASSROOM AND MOVING IT TO THIS LOCATE TO THIS NEW LOCATION. WILL THAT CLASSROOM ALLOW YOU TO DO ANY EXPANSION EXPANSION OF STAFF OF PUPILS? I MEAN, ROOM THAT THEY'RE USING AS A MULTIPURPOSE ROOM. SO WITH ALL THE FIXTURES THAT ARE IN THERE, WE CAN'T USE IT DURING THE DEBT. SO THE IDEA IS TO TAKE EVERYTHING THAT'S THERE MOVING IN THIS STORAGE AREA AND THEY COULD USE IT. YOU KNOW WHEN THERE'S BAD WEATHER WERE THEY WANT TO THE CHILDREN HAVE A BREAKOUT TIME. THEY CAN GO THERE AND USE IT NOW THEY CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S ALL THIS STUFF IS IN THERE ALL THE ATOMS, AND IS IT TRUE THAT THE STORAGE ROOM IS NOT GOING TO PRODUCE ANY MORE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOL? NO. ANY MORE STAFF IN THE SCHOOL ANYMORE TRAFFIC COMING TO THE SCHOOL, THE SAME CHILDREN THAT ARE THERE, OKAY? QUESTION THE I THINK THAT MR SCHATZ MAN MENTIONED THE 2009 APPROVAL THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO USE. SO YOU'RE ABANDONING THAT APPROVAL ? WELL, YOU HAVE A DROP DEAD DATE. THAT'S A NUMBER. IT'S I THINK WE'RE BANNING IT AND IT'S GONE, OKAY? SO WE'RE PUTTING AN END FOR WHAT? I WOULD CALL AN INFILL. THIS APPLICATION IS WHAT THEY CALL AN INFO. IT'S SUBSTITUTING SMALLER SPACE FOR LARGER SPACE. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS. OKAY, MR ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? YES. UM YES, ONE MORE . SO WOULD YOU AGREE THAT WE CAN PUT? UM IN OUR RESOLUTION OF THAT OF THAT UPPER FLOOR AREA WILL NOT BE USED FOR CLASSROOMS IN THE FUTURE. YES THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE'VE PUT IT TO MAKE IT EXPLICITLY CLEAR. ANY FURTHER. ANY FURTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS. THANK A THANK YOU, MR DECKER, PLEASE. YOU WANT TO GIVE US THE BENEFIT OF YOUR, UH, EDUCATION AND PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE? SURE. UM I HAVE A BACHELOR'S OF SCIENCE DEGREE FROM RUTGERS UNIVERSITY AND CIVIL ENGINEERING. I HAVE BEEN A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY SINCE 1993 UM, APPEARED BEFORE NUMEROUS BOARDS. OVER THE YEARS. I THINK, ACTUALLY THIS BOARD BUT WANT QUITE A WHILE AGO. I ALSO CURRENTLY SERVES AS THE MUNICIPAL ENGINEER IN BETHLEHEM AND ALEXANDRIA TOWNSHIPS AND 100 COUNTY CRANBERRY TOWNSHIP IN MIDDLESEX COUNTY AND FOR LAND USE PORTS, INCLUDING THE ROCKY HILL LANDERS, PORTED. THANK YOU. SEPTIMUS EXPERT. THANK YOU, OKAY. NOW MR FORD, WHO, UNFORTUNATELY IS ILL PREPARED. THE PLANS FOR YOU WENT OVER YOUR ASSOCIATED WITH VAN CLEEF ENGINEERING WHERE MR. MORNING AM I CORRECT? CORRECT AND OF ALL, YOU DIDN'T DO THE PLANS. YOU VISITED THE SITE, MY CORRECT, CORRECT. AND YOU WENT OVER THE PLANS WITH MR FORD, MY CORRECT AND YOU'RE SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT OF MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP IN THE VISIBLE AND THIS LAW, THE STANDING PURITY, CORRECT, OKAY. YOU WANT TO GIVE US THE ENGINEERING OVERVIEW OF IT, AND WE'LL GO OVER VERY BRIEFLY SINCE THE. ENGINEERS SPORT ENGINEERS. COMMENTS ARE VERY SMALL. UM, YOU WANT TO GO OVER THE ENGINEERING ASPECTS OF THE SURE LET ME UM LET ME PUT UP. WANT TO IDENTIFY THAT POLICE FOR THE RECORD. THIS IS SHEET THREE OF THE PLANT'S SET THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE [00:20:03] COURT, OKAY? I'M SCROLLING DOWN , SCROLLING DOWN TO THE, UH, THE OVERALL SITE. AND ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU HEAR ME FROM THIS MICROPHONE? YES. SO. THE ADDITION THAT WAS APPROVED BACK IN 2009. IS THIS BUILDING THIS PORTION RIGHT HERE AND THAT THAT'S BEING ABANDONED. THE PROPOSED, UM EDITION. IS ACTUALLY MM HMM. OVER IN. THIS AREA AND YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT BECAUSE IT IS SMALL, SO I'M GOING TO SCROLL DOWN TO THE LOWER LEFT OF THE PLAN. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE THIS. THIS BUILD IS PORTION THAT SHADED IS THE 769 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING EDITION. FROM A SITE PLAN STANDPOINT. IT'S ACTUALLY, UM A SIMPLE. APPLICATION. WE'RE NOT. WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO THE PARKING AREA BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED TO. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING WITH SEWER WATER. UM AS WAS REFLECTED. IT'S A STORAGE CONDITIONS. AND MUCH SMALLER. UM I'LL ALSO ADD THAT WHILE THE ADDITION IS 769 SQUARE FEET THERE IS A VEST TO BE ALL THERE THAT IS BEING REMOVED AS PART OF THE APPLICATION THAT VESTIBULES 100 AND 45 SQUARE FEET. SO ARNETT IMPERVIOUS AREA THAT WE'VE INCREASED. JUST FOR THIS AT THIS SPOT IS 624 SQUARE FEET OF IMPERVIOUS. NOW. THE OTHER BUILDING, AS WAS TESTIFIED BEFORE. UM AFTER YOU TAKE OUT SOME OF THE EXISTING BUILDING. THAT WAS THERE. THAT'S APPROXIMATELY 2240 SQUARE FIELD THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED OF ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS SO WE'VE ELIMINATED THAT SO WE'VE REDUCED THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THE SITE DOWN TO THE 624. SQUARE FEET. UM HOW MUCH PERVIOUS WAS ELIMINATED WHEN YOU ABANDON THE 2009 APPROVAL, APPROXIMATELY 2240. UM, THE. THE BUILDING ITSELF HAS A LARGER FOOTPRINT, BUT IT DISPLACES SOME OTHER EXISTING BUILDING FEATURES. UM I DO KNOW ONE OF THE COMMENTS IN THE ENGINEERS REVIEW LETTER. WAS WITH REGARDS TO NEWT NUMBER THREE ON THE PLAN AND REFLECTED AN INCREASE OF 3000 SQUARE FEET. 3000 PLUS SQUARE FEET OF ADDITIONAL COURTEOUS AND JUST TO CLARIFY THAT 3000 SQUARE FEET WAS ACTUALLY THE SOME OF THE 2009 BUILDING AND WHAT'S CURRENTLY PROPOSED SO THAT WILL BE REVISED. ON THE PLAN TO THE ENGINEERS SATISFACTION TO REFLECT THE ACCURATE NUMBER THAT SAYS BUILDING ADDITION PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ERIN BUT NOT BUILT EMPEROR WOULD BE REVISED TO SAY BUILDING. ADDITION PREVIOUSLY APPROVED IN 2009. WELL THAT WAS ABANDONED AND WILL NOT BE BUILT BUILT. CORRECT. AND WE CAN CLARIFY THAT THE NOTE ON THE PLAN AS WELL. YEAH, FROM THE PLAN. AND HIS GENERAL COMMON IS THE NUMBER FOUR REFERRING TO, UH , MR DOHERTY'S MEMO GIVEN IN THIS APPLICATION DATED ON. SAY NOVEMBER 15TH, HE SAYS CLARIFY PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BUILDING EDITION IS PROPOSED. NO. TO PLAY INITIATIVE PICKED THE COUNTRY CONSTRUCTION INTERESTS. WHERE IS THE CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE GOING TO BE? WELL THIS SITE IS BECAUSE IT IS AN INFILL BUILDING. IT'S NOT YOUR TYPICAL NEW CONSTRUCTION SITE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF EARTHWORK. AND SO FORTH. WHERE, UM, CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE WITH STONE AND SO FORTH IS REALLY WARRANTED. UM WE ARE GOING TO BE ACCESSING IT THROUGH THE EXISTING DRIVE AND PARKING AREA . I WOULD SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS RATHER THAN A CONSTRUCTION ENTRANCE INCLUDE SOME KIND OF A NOTE THAT REQUIRES THE CONTRACTOR TO MAKE SURE THAT THE UM YOU KNOW, TIRES AND EVERYTHING ARE CLEAR OF ANY SOIL OR DEBRIS BEFORE ENTERING OUT THROUGH A PUBLIC ROAD, AND JUST TO ELABORATE ON THAT, UM I THINK THE REAL INTENT OF THIS WAS TO SEE WHAT SORT OF IMPACT CONSTRUCTION IS GOING TO HAVE ON THE SITE. SO IF WE COULD SHOW SOME SORT OF STORAGE AREA OR, YOU KNOW LOOK AT THE KIND OF SCARY KIND OF A STAGING AREA, THE STAGING AREA EXACTLY A STATEMENT STAGING AREA OF THE PERFECT STAGE IN HERE. WE CAN DO THAT TO THE ENGINEER SATISFACTION. THE AFRICAN SHOULD PROVIDE TESTIMONY REGARDING CHANGES TO THE CIRCULATION THE ACCURATE PEDESTRIAN TO RESOLVE THE CONSTRUCTION. THERE ANY. THERE IS NONE BECAUSE, AS WE [00:25:06] STATED EARLIER, THERE WILL BE NO ADDITIONAL SCHOOLCHILDREN, EMPLOYEES, ALL CIRCULATION AND PARKING CUSTOM ONLY SHOULD BE PROVIDED REGARDING THE PURPOSE OF THE ADDITION AND IMPACT ON OPERATION. YOU SATISFIED, SATISFIED? GRADING STORMWATER. YOU POINT OUT. IT'S NOT A BIG STORM WATER REGS. MHM AND IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, MR DECKER THAT 9 10, WHICH ARE DETAILS. AND CAN YOU TALK MORE INTO THAT MICROPHONE? OKAY SO 9 10. YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL INTO THE MICROPHONE. NINE ACRES DOING FINE. I DON'T KNOW HOW POWERFUL THIS IS. 10 AND 11 WILL TAKE CARE OF IT IN REGARD TO THE STONE WATER AND THE GRADING. UM, THERE THERE, TOO. TWO THINGS THAT I WOULD ASK YOU GUYS TO ADDRESS YOUR TESTIMONY, THE FIRST OF THE ULTIMATE DISCHARGE POINT FROM THE ROOF RUNOFF. WHERE WOULD THAT GROUP FROM BE GOING? WOULD THAT BE GOING INTO AN EXISTING SYSTEM SYSTEM ISN'T HETERO SYSTEM. I BELIEVE I BELIEVE SO. YOU BELIEVE THAT? IT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE WORK. THEY HAVE A VERY MINIMAL ADDITIONAL INCREASING, IMPERVIOUS AND YES AND IN, UH WITH THE GRADING. UM WITH THE NEW ACCESS BE ADA COMPLIANT WITH ACCESSIBLE RUBY COMPLAINTS, AND WE SHOW SPOT ELEVATIONS IN THAT AREA. I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE CONTOURS ON THE ENTIRE SITE. WE DO HAVE SPITE ELEVATIONS THERE, AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS A D I THINK WERE SUFFICIENT WITH THE SPOT ELEVATIONS SHOWS THAT THERE'S POSITIVE GRADING AWAY FROM THE BUILDING. AND WE CAN WE CAN GET THE SLOPES TO SEE THAT'S 88 COMPLIANT. MR SULLIVAN'S POINTS OUT THAT UH, IF YOU ASSUME THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC SCHOOL OR LICENSED BY, AT LEAST BY THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY ALL THE BULK REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN SATISFIED FOR SCHOOLS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT, ORANGE MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIPS, AND THAT'S YOUR CONCLUSION AS WELL. THERE'S NO VARIANCES FOR ANY CDS OR BOOKS. CORRECT CORRECT. AND HE ASKED ABOUT LOST STREET PARKING. SINCE WE'RE NOT PROVIDING ANY MORE TRAFFIC. WE'RE NOT INCREASING. THE AMOUNT OF THE STUDENTS WERE NOT INCREASING THE MATTER OF THE STAFF. THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL WALL STREET TRAFFIC. CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT, OK? AND, UH, THE SAME THING WITH RESPECT TO THE PARKING MY CORRECT CORRECT. RIGHT AND UPPER WARM WATER ALLOWS TO KEEP MR SULLIVAN POINTS OUT THAT IF YOU IF THEY GIVE US A WAIVER FOR THE ABOUT LANDSCAPING WILL BE ONE TREE BUT PURSUANT TO THE OPPOSITE CASE COORDINATORS MEMO . WE'RE PRAYING FOR TREES, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU SUGGESTS. OKAY, THAT'S CORRECT. AND, UH, IF THEY'RE NOT LOCATED ON THE PLAN, MR BARD ALONE THROUGHOUT THE FIELD, TURN AROUND AND UNTIL. FREE USE OF GO AND PUTTING SOME LANDSCAPING WITH INITIATIVES, SO THAT'S IT. TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT. WE IT'S FINE. MR BARD ALONE WILL DETERMINE THE FINAL LOCATIONS OF THE PLANTINGS THAT YOU'RE NO, I WANT TO MENTION PERCENT SCREEN REASON. UM THE SCHOOL. IT'S NOT TAX EXEMPT. SO WE DO HAVE TO PAY. RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT SEEMS FOR WHATEVER REASON. BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S A NONPROFIT STATUTE SAYS REAL ESTATE TAXES. WE PAY REELS TAXES SO THEREFORE THAT PART OF THE STATUTE ON THE MISSILE LAND USE LAW REQUIRES US TO PAY THE AND I FOLLOWED THE CHOIR RESIDENTIAL FEE FOR THE FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT NOTE. I APPRECIATE IT IS AND YOU CAN'T. THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT NOW, BUT WE CAN END IT TO OUR INTERVIEW NOTES, UM, FOR RECOMMENDING FOR POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE TOWNSHIP TO CONSIDER. OKAY. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, MR. DECKER. BUDDY ELSE. JUST. IT'SSURPRISINO CLARIFY THAT SURPRISING THAT YOU DIDN'T MENTION THE SIDEWALK COMMENT. YEAH HE'S NOT. WHO'S GOING TO ADDRESS THE SIDEWALK? COMMENT I'M GOING TO ADDRESS THE SIDEWALK COMMENT, OKAY OVER WARREN WANTS ALLOWS SKI MEMORABILITY. BECAUSE I I'VE I'VE I'VE DONE THE RESEARCH WITH WARREN WARREN ON IT, AND I KNOW YOU KNOW, I BROUGHT YOU TOLD ME AND SHE RECOMMENDS A WAIVER BECAUSE CABLE DEAL. OKAY, SOUTH IS IMPROVING. WE'LL DEAL WITH IT [00:30:05] . BUT IT WAS IN MR SULLIVAN'S MEMO. YOU'RE NOT BRINGING IT UP FOR THIS WITNESS. IS THAT CORRECT? I'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER. ANYTHING ELSE FROM MR DECKER 11 QUESTION. UM SINCE THERE IS AN INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS SERVICE SURFACE, IS THERE ANY PROVISION TO DEAL WITH THE RUNOFF? NOW THERE'S NO INCREASE. WELL. FOR ME. NEXT INCREASED. THERE'S NO ONE THAT MR DECKER JUST TESTIFIED THAT THERE WAS A SLIGHT INCREASE. MR SHACHTMAN. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. WHEN ON EARLIER APPLICATIONS. THERE WAS A STORM WATER MANAGEMENT BASIN THAT WAS INSTALLED THIS PROJECT AND THERE IS A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT OF THE SITE. THAT CAN BE CONVERTED TO IMPERVIOUS AND THAT WAS BUILT INTO THE BASIS. SO THE BASIN WAS DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE FUTURE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE. 3000 SQUARE FEET OVER TALK. CORRECT 3000 CORRECT. IT WAS BUILT IT WAS BUILT FOR. I THINK IT'S 20. IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE. WE'RE INCLUDING THAT 3000 OR 18 POINT SOMETHING AND CHANGE. BUT NOW THAT WE'RE TAKING OUT THAT OTHER BUILDING THAT NUMBER WILL COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT. SO THERE'S SO IN OTHER WORDS THERE WAS PLANNING THAT WAS DONE AHEAD OF TIME WITH REGARDS TO THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT DESIGNED TO ALLOW FUTURE EXPANSION OF THE BUILDING AND AS FAR AS THIS APPLICATION IS CONCERNED. MR WALMART. UH HUH. THE YOU COULD SAY THAT THE DETENTION BASIN NOW AND THE STORM, ONE THAT MANAGES OVER DESIGNED BECAUSE WE'RE GOING FROM A LARGER IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE TO A SMALLER YEAH, CORRECT. ANYTHING FURTHER FROM MR DOCTOR. THIS IS A QUESTION FOR MR DECKER. UM, BUT YOU HAVE NEIGHBORS WITHIN 200 FT. YOU HAVE A LIST OF THEM. DO YOU HAVE THE APPROPRIATE? NO OBJECTION. IS THAT A QUESTION FOR YOU? OR IS SOMEBODY ELSE GOING TO TAKE THAT? IF YOU ARE AWARE OF ANY OBJECTIONS BY ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS TO ANYTHING YOU'RE PROPOSING. NOT THAT I KNOW THEY NEVER CALLED ME. OKAY. THANK YOU, MR SPEAKER. BE HERE. WELL I WAS ACTUALLY WAS JUST ABOUT TO ASK IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC FOR THIS WITNESS. CLICK TRACK. I DIDN'T THINK I DIDN'T THINK THERE WERE GOING TO. THE QUESTION IS FINE, MR CARRON. YOU WANT TO TELL US WHAT YOUR PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND IS? AND YOUR EDUCATION? YES FOR THE RECORD AGAIN. HM, ARCHITECT. BACHELOR OF ARCHITECTURE FROM NJ I T LICENSED IN JERSEY SINCE 1983 HAVE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF STANDING BEFORE NUMBER BOARDS OVER THE YEARS. AND, UH, YES AWARD INCLUDED. REMEMBER RELEASED THE PLANNING. IT'S BEEN AWHILE, BUT YES. WELCOME BACK. UM. SO YOU PREPARE THE ARCHITECTURAL PLANS TO ASK HIM IF THEY ACCEPT HIM AS AN EXPERT. WELCOME BACK. THANK YOU. PLANS RIGHT? AND UM ONE OF THE PROOF THAT WE HAVE TO. PROVE TO THE TO THE SATISFACTION OF SCORED IS THAT THE LACK OF WHAT THEY CALL THE NEGATIVE CRITERIA. HMM AND THE ADDITION OF THE 769 SQUARE FOOT STORAGE ROOM IS IN YOUR OPINION, YOU ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE REST OF THE BUILDING. YES, IT IS. HMM. AND IT DOESN'T PRESENT ANY. BLAIR OR ANY OTHER DETRIMENT TO ANYBODY SURROUNDING THAT. MY QUESTION THAT'S CORRECT. AND I WANT TO POINT OUT FOR THE BOARD THAT MR RESULT, VAN'S OFFICE ALSO COMES SEDUCTIVE INCURSION. AND YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU DESIGNED IT FOR CLASSROOM, IT'S NOW YOUR UNDERSTANDING AS THE ARCHITECT SHOULD BE USED FOR STORAGE. THAT'S CORRECT. CLASSROOM ITEM CAME UP VERY EARLY. I DIDN'T GET OUT OF MY NOTES PROPERLY, SO THAT'S MY ERROR. IT WAS AN ERROR TO EVEN PUT IT ON THE PLANTS FROM THE CORRECT AND SO AGAIN, IT'S ARCHITECTURALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE REST OF THE BUILDING. YES THAT WAS THE SPECIFIC DESIGN INTENT WAS TO ALLOW TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING BUILDING BOTH STYLE MATERIALS [00:35:05] AND COLOR, OKAY? ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, MR YARRINGTON. OKAY? I JUST JUST WANT TO QUICKLY PUBLIC. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. UH ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE PUBLIC FOR THE ARCHITECT? NO, I DON'T SEE ANY WANT TO QUICKLY GO OVER THE MEMOS AND SULLIVAN'S MEMO IS USUAL. THEY'RE ALL EXAMINATION OF THE APPLICATION. POINTS OUT. THERE'S NO BOOK WORK. IT'S A PERMITTED USE, BUT FOR THE FACT THAT IT'S A, UH NON LICENSED SCHOOL, THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY AREA AND YARD REQUIREMENTS THE HEIGHT EVERYTHING ELSE IS, UH, TAKING CARE OF THE BOARD IN 2009. DECLARED THAT IT WAS INHERENTLY BENEFICIAL USE, SO I ASSUME THAT YOU ACCEPT MR SULLIVAN'S OPINION ON THAT QUERY COUNSELOR UNDER BRESSMAN VERSUS GASHES THAT REST UTAKATA BRUCE, WE'RE GO FOR IT. WHAT'S THAT? I SAID, IF YOU WANT TO PUT IN PROOFS FOR IT, YOU CAN. YOU CAN GO FOR IT. MR SULLIVAN'S RENDERED AN OPINION. HE'S THE BOARD'S PLANNER. HE HAS SAID THE USE IS INHERENTLY BENEFICIAL. DO YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT OR ACCEPT HIS OPINION, AND THEY WERE SORT OF PUBLIC BENEFIT? I MEAN, DO YOU AGREE WITH THE BOY PLANNER WITH HIM, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. BUT IT'S A RATIO TAKATA BECAUSE YOU FOUND IT AS A AS BEFORE. IT'S NOT RAISED UTAKATA. IF THEY WANTED TO, THEY COULD RECONSIDER IT. YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO RECONSIDER IT. DON'T JUST SAYING IT'S NOT JUST AS ILLEGAL POINT BETWEEN LAWYERS. OKAY AS A LEGAL POINT BETWEEN LAWYERS. NO, I DON'T THINK GRACE JUDAH CARTER APPLIES TO IT. EVEN THOUGH BREAST BREAST PERSON VERSUS GAS , RIGHT? YEAH ALRIGHT, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. UH WE'RE DOING FOUR TREES. AH AND AS FAR AS SCREECH STREET TREES CONCERN THEIR STREET TREES ALL ALONG CHERRY VALLEY ROAD, THERE'S PLENTY OF THEM. THERE'S MORE THAN THE ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS AND AS FAR AS THE SIDEWALK IS CONCERNED, UH, TALKING WITH LAUREN WANTS ALASKA AND SHE AGREED THAT AH, UM PRINCETON, PRINCETON. NOW MR POWER D IS BUILDING SIDEWALKS ALONG THEIR SIDE. SO IN CHECKING WITH MARK HERMAN HE SAYS. WE WERE GOING TO LET PRINCETON DO IT. SO THERE'S NO USE OF HAVING SIDEWALKS ALONE OUR SIDE BECAUSE THEY THERE'S AN AGREEMENT WITH PRINCETON THAT THEY'RE GOING TO EVENTUALLY DO IT ON THEIR SIDE. THEY'RE GOING FROM GREAT ROAD ALL THE WAY OUT . MAKE A SUGGESTION. YOU'RE TESTIFYING. YOU'RE NOT UNDER OATH. ONCE YOU JUST GO WITH WHAT SHE SAYS IN HER MEMO. I'M JUST SAYING, I'M JUST YOU KNOW, I'M JUST ALL I'M DOING IS TRYING TO, UM, UM WHY DON'T YOU JUST TALK ABOUT IT? MEMOS DATED NOVEMBER 14 AND AN ITEM BE UNDER SIDEWALKS. SHE HAS COMMENTS. 12 AND THREE. WHY DON'T YOU JUST READ THOSE COMMENTS INTO THE RECORD FINE. SHE SAYS. SHE SAYS SHE DOESN'T OBJECT TO STREET TREES. SHE DOESN'T OBJECT. TO UH , SIDEWALK BEING ASKED FOR US TO DESIGN WAIVER. I'M JUST TRYING TO READ IT INTO THE RECORD, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO NOT HAVE YOU TESTIFY AND I'M FINE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND WHAT'S IN THE HERD? THERE'S A MEMO DATED NOVEMBER 14TH FROM LAUREN LASKY, WHO'S THE SPACE AND STEWARDSHIP DIRECTOR. AND UNDER SIDEWALKS, POINTS OUT, BE ONE TOWNSHIP CODE SECTION 16-5 POINT, 14. C REQUIRES SIDE WALKING ON SIDEWALKS AND ALL PUBLIC STREETS. ITEM TWO. SHE SAYS. THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THE VICINITY AND NO PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIONS ARE INDICATED ON THE TOWNSHIPS. 2001 PEDESTRIAN BIKE WAY. CIRCULATION PLAN NUMBER THREE. SHE SAYS THE TOWNSHIP HAS BEEN WORKING WITH PRINCETON AND A PHASED APPROACH TO RECONSTRUCTING CHERRY VALLEY ROAD. THESE PROJECTS HAVE INCLUDED A PATHWAY ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF CHERRY VALLEY ROAD . THE PRINCETON SIDE CURRENTLY SPANS THE LENGTH FROM ROUTE TWO. OH, SIX TO CHERRY HILL ROAD. I THINK SHE MEANT CHERRY VALLEY ROAD, BUT I'M NOT SURE JERRY HILL. OKAY THERE ARE NO PLANS IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE TO RECONSTRUCT THIS SECTION OF CHERRY VALLEY ROAD, BUT PRINCETON SIDEWALK PLAN WHICH WAS ADOPTED IN NOVEMBER, 2017 INDICATES A SIDEWALK ALONG THE FULL LENGTH OF CHERRY VALLEY ROAD. SHE THEN GIVES A LINK. TO THE SIDEWALK PRINCETON SIDEWALK PLAN, AND THEN SHE CONCLUDES A NUMBER FOUR. THIS OFFICE DOES NOT OPPOSE A WAIVER FROM THIS REQUIREMENT AT THIS TIME, SO I ASSUME YOU'RE APPLYING FOR THE EXCEPTION BASED ON THE FACT THAT HE ACTUALLY IS NOT OPPOSED TO [00:40:04] IT, AND SHE'S ACTUALLY PRESENTED A CASE FOR THE BOARD. NOT DOING IT. IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT? MHM. KRISTEN SERGEANT, THE HEALTH. MHM OFFICIALS HAS NO COMMENT. AND AS BASED UPON THE FACT THAT WE TOLD HER AS WE SWORE HERE, THAT THERE BE NO FURTHER STUDENTS. AH INVOLVED, MR BARLOW, UNSATISFIED WITH THE LANDSCAPING BY MEMO DATED NOVEMBER 15TH TWO. OH 22. THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION. UM. THEY ASKED FOR SOLAR PANELS. WHICH, UM FOR THIS SMALL, UM. ADDITION WE, UH WE DON'T THINK IT'S COST. UH IT'S VERY COSTLY AND THERE SINCE THERE ARE NO SOLAR PANELS ON IT. AH! ON THE REST OF THE BUILDING. WE DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH IT. ENERGY AND WATER SAVING FIXTURES AND APPLIANCES BE INSTALLED. YOU DO WE'RE DOING THAT. THERE'S NO LIGHTING, SO THAT'S UM IRRELEVANT. CHARGING STATIONS FOR THE PARKING LOT THAT CAME INTO EFFECT ON NOVEMBER 1ST OF THIS YEAR. WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO THE PARKING LOT, SO WE'RE NOT CHANGING THAT. AND SAME THING WITH NO IDLING SCIENCE. ALRIGHT THEY HE THEY SUGGEST THE RING GARDEN BUT THE STORM MORTAR, UH, BECAUSE WE'RE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE IS LESS THAN A MAJOR DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE NOT DOING THAT AND TREAT PLANTING AND LANDSCAPING. WE'RE FOLLOWING ALONG WITH MR BARN ALONE. WE'RE PLANNING. ALSO SOME. TROUBLE ON THE, UH, WHERE THE ROOT STORAGE ROOM IS GOING TO HELP BUFFER SOME MORE, AND YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT PRACTICE OF VERY LARGE TRACT AWAY FROM THE CHURCH AND ALSO THE, UM, THE RESIDENTIAL HOUSES ON CHERRY VALLEY ROAD. UH UM. THE SHADE TREE COMMITTEE MEMO. WE'RE REFERRING TO MR BART ALONE AND, UM AS MR DRILL POINTS OUT. UM SHE RECOMMENDED FOR TREES. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO DO INSTEAD OF THE ONE WHICH WOULD BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE. UH HUH. AND SHE, UH SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO LEARNING THAT DESIGN WHEREVER FOR THE AMOUNT OF DISTURBANCE, YOU KNOW ANYTHING THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS VERY BRIEFLY IS THAT SHE WANTS A, UH, A. PEDESTRIAN NEEDS. HMAN, UH, ALONG THE TOP. PROBABLY 30 YEARS AGO, WE WOULD HAVE DONE THAT. BUT IN LIGHT OF NEWTOWN. IN LIGHT OF THE TEXAS MASSACRE. IN LIGHT OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO SHOOT UP A SCHOOL CHILDREN. WE REALLY DON'T WANT ANY PEOPLE HAVE OUR PROPERTY, THPUBLICE WE BUTEEP THEM T OFFSORRY,. IT WOD HAVEULEEN B A GD WORLTHISS THE IYWA O THEF ANDD WHAVE TE KEEPO THE SATY OFFEHE CHI TREN WLD ARPORTANIM, PROVTINGID AACCESSN MTGOMERONY TNSHIPOWLAN P ORTH. NWE JUST N'T WADO TALKI OTHE PRN ERTY.OPND I A TOED LAUN ABOURETHAT, T ESH SA. WELLID IT IS, WT IT IHAS. MASSNTOWN, EWXASTE RES.ACEEP K PEOEPL OFFHE , ANUTY DON'TELONG BERETH GOODSURE'M EVERYDYBO HAS A NTENT I TO WA OVERLKHE TY TTHEO MONOMERYTG TOSHIP NWNER KNOEV TW.ES ONEAK. DERANLYD PERSGE.ON YNG ARE MENSACREDAS. ANDO REFOREHETHAT'S, HIS I T SE ENDTH OF E PRESTHTATIONEN.AN THE ULVAN A LIESTIONQU. IS QUEST RERFO THE PESTRIAED NSEMENTEA.RDINAN O BASEDCE FROMT, OQUR IITS JUST A REQSTUE HE T D'T MEAONN TO BETTLELI ITIS IT . A REQST FROUE OPENM ACESP ANDTEWARD SIP DIRSHTOREC EXAMRT ORDI INCENA BAS FORE, ORDIHEPLIDEWAL S FORKS NCE BNAEDASO NOT D BELVE ORDINAN ENCEQUIRE RNTME, THEYT IMO SEDPO THE CDITIONON . THT D REQUIRE AN EXPTIONCE E'S NER DESIGOEXCEPTN NIO OR REEF THALIWILLT E REQU BED.IR TOLLYTA UP THETO BORDER.OU MSCHATZR MONS REANSSO F ORT WANTNOG TOINAVE T HS N IMPOIOD. IT'SEUP TOS IMPOBOARD WHETH, YOU WERTAN TO IT ORSEOT, BU NTHERE'T S N IT'SANCOR REQUIEMENTRE FOR IT. O OT N LIKE T SIDEWHEK WHERAL GRANU DIF'T DO ONIT YOU ND TOEE T AEXCEPTN N.IONYONE A HE MLE ACCTING MEP [00:45:03] RECHTMASHS ARGUN'NTMEND NOT A IMSING IPOT? OKAY I DON HAVE 'TA OBLEMPRITH TH W. IAT JUSTRE WE A ATWH IORTANTMPHY ARE WE W ABOUTG IT TH?ENF NO ORSNANCEDI, CAUSEBE EN THEWHRE HERY' ON A E DRIANTSVA AND BDEFINIY ON.TI IT VIATESDESO THE, BRD HASOAO A FDING, INR EXAMFOE, IATES EVOM WHAFRT DIATESEV FROM T ORDINHECE.ANUT THE B EVENR HAS TMAKE AO INDING FHAT T N THIS I CASWHERE E ERE'STH ANNHEREN IY BENETLCIAL UFI THESE STILU LN CASE IAW SAY LSHEY T OF T TL OROVE PATISFA SIONCT NEGATHEE CRIIVRIONTE. NOW THER HIS PRCHITE ACT ON SAYTO SE' NOESTHET A DETRIICNTME ,NO NUINCE OSAANYTHIR LIKENG AT. TTHYHE SLL WOUTILDAVE T H OOVEPRHAT BY TRANTIN GGHE T TS IT ESN'TDO ANDANTIABSYLL IMPR THE AITENTIN ORDIPO OF THSEZONINGE NCE.NAOR THE FASTER MANPL. HIS, F TORXAMPLE EAS LAN P ELENTME YOU COU YOU SEIM IIF YOUT ANTED WO. BUTT DOESHDOE TO,AVND A HE DON'EN'AN EXCD TIONEP IYOUF WANT IT. REALL I DONY?'T O SOUN T LIKED A BRONKE PROB. RET 30 YBURSEA AGO WE . EVAIABYEAHD I UNDE, TANDRS AND YER READS THE NSPAPEREW TCHINGWA IT. D'TONVERSEL O L. YOU ITLDSO I I THIT,,NK JUST LEE IT BAVE. THACONCLUT SDE YROU STIMONTEY, AND, , IF YUH TAKEOU SULLCE LAW.ASHM, UH MIS MR, DRILOIIVS OUT?NT I'M SURE MR COULD L ITDO BETR THATE NTHEREI. THEYUH. Y HAVE OU TOIGHWE THE IERENTLNH BENEFYIALC A, WHIUSCH THINK I YOU C FINDAN SCHOOL FORDUCATI E PEOPLNG ED ALTANNATIVEERENTURE V YOUTIOEDL PROPNAAL.OSND AHEN T ISCUSS DHAT W IANY, OF AND 'STH AS MR DRLILOINTS P OUT, DETRIHENTSME I D'TONEE BUIINGLD A SLL ROOMAM. FOR SCOLHO PRODUSCT WHOUTIT ANY RCULATCIN PIOBLEMSRO WITUT ANYHO TRFIC PAFBLEMSRO OR SET OFA PRLEMS.OB A THE CNDDITIONON TO FWO BE UH UM.HE BUS TOR US F LOW THOLE. THE CMENTSOM ,NDITIOCONSHAT WE T ALREAREDY CORR ERESSEDXPN THE OCORDRE TECND THA AST'T I, AND COMEAT TT'S THHASECRETE TESTS FROM AS ASE CALLED CIKA S GREAT WNSHIP.OWKAY, O T. RHTIG TNK YOUHAMR. SUONTT. PUBLIC WAS GNG TO OIKAS D IF AREY HADTHNY A, E GOVESIPRALS OFONHEIR T MENTS.RN FTHER CURMENTS.OM I COMMHEO COMMENR ARETS TS WERENADDRESE DSE VIA TEIMONYSTAND WE. AVE, U HH, NOR REMISIONS VIED TONE T HEANS.PL AREHERE A T COMMENYSNT FR MEMBEOM OF PURSICBL AND TS ION THATISPPLICA AON.TI UP F OY. THAKA YOU. NKENOPHIS T BOARDOR DISSSION.CUH U I'M EMOTO. LL FORWELIZEDMA MAKEHEM T NIO THACLOSET T PUBLIHEC EYEST COR THISFO ALICATIPPON ONE HAVE I. TPEN TH O UP FOISR A SCUSSIDI.ON SAYOMETHI S.NG OKAYELL, T WNKHAOU SO Y MUCHOR LICATIPPON. .MR M RHWARZMSC. IAN DO THINK THATUM, YOU'VE, MET, UMOSITIV P EITERIACR AND, UHND AMPROVE I CRITHETH'SRE NO NETIVEGA IA FORERHIS AP TICATIOPL. BOARTECAUSE BECAUSE B THE S FINDD'GINT'S IN IRENTLYHE BEFICIALNE USEHAT'S T RIG HTDERUN THERITERI COF BENA ICIAF US THANKE.OU. Y C I HAVANE?OU N, MRAICHWARZ SN,MAHE CONSNTIONMEHAT T Y'VEOU EREDID IT UNR THE DECRETSE RECTOR CONSIRED UDEERND THSECRETE EST. T LYERS AAWWER.NS YESH UCAN I , VEHA A MOTIOTO E TS? ANDHI'M SOR I. UM,RY THERRI, CAN LLUYOUMMARI SZE IF THEANYE INGTH T CONDIHEONSTI NEW ROOSHALLM NOT BUSEDE FOA CLASR OOMSR. REMO THE NVEE HE PLA T SAYINN,FUTUREG SHALOOCLM HAD A IOTE N SINGAY CLASBEL USED R AFO OOM.SRHEY AB TDONEDAN T PLAN20 APPROL. ADVAA NOTED OTH D STATNEGIN THAT ETH NG ADDITN, APPIOVEDRO I N0920 HAS BEENBANDON A AND WEDL BE ILT.BU SHOW STAGING AARE ANCONSTRD TIONUC ACCESS ONHE , NOT A SARATEEP COTRUCTINSON ERANCENT THERUCTINS ACCESONTOS PUTT ON I LAN. P THE CDITIONONS PERR LETTESRTEMS 9 I0 AND 1 SUBJE TO A CTSIDENTRELIA THE FEPME. WORD'GONNAS . TIONMO WOU BELDO GRAN TT T [00:50:05] HEONE USD ED VARIAS. WITNTH T GOINTR EEPTIONXC, AND TRE'SHE TOG BE AONDITI C THATON TH PLANTEYOR TRE F.ES SDE R LAWRPECEEN MEMO. AND THATNG EYTE INLSAWRENC LMEMOE E H DIDT HAVEN'HE DID. TN' COND TOJE THOSE A THERE IONSIT A INND THEOARD'S B RELARGU CONTIONSDIJUST, N THE O PLTINGSAN. TH'RE SUEYECT TOBJ THEPPROVA A OF THLFIELDE OFR OWNSHI TLANDSCP E THATPROBAY HAD BL BUTIT ALL R'SHT.IG OKA UH,Y, CAN I VE THAHAMOTIONT TO PROVE?AP ABLUTELYSO. AND THIIS ALSS O TH SITWIPLAN AE ROVAL.PP SENDED BCOMR WOOY D. CHEY CANRR YOCALLU THE RL, PLEOLE? YESAS. WHAT. OFSYELODGET B? YETS. YES. MROKAY THANKOU Y. ANKTHOU, Y YOU SMANCH HAP.PY HOLIDS TOAY APPLL. THAEL YOU FNKOR THE ANTS. ICANK YOTHU FOR COMING. ALRIGHT. NEXT RETURN TO, UM CASE BE A TAX 04 TECH TO THE APPLICANT IS KEVIN RICE WOODMON. THIS IS FOR NOT AN INTERPRETATION, BUT USE VARIANTS IN CONNECTION WITH THE PROPOSED USE OF THE PROPERTY AS A DRUG AND TREATMENT FACILITY FOR MEN AND WOMEN. THE EXPIRATION DATE OF THIS APPLICATION IS MARCH 1ST 2023 AFFIDAVIT AND NOTIFICATION OF PUBLICATION. IT HAS BEEN, UM WAS REQUIRED. UH, HE AFRICANS PRESENTATION NOW. TO SET UP THE COMPUTER WITH THE HEAD AND GET THANK YOU. MHM. THANKS SO. NO, THANK YOU. DO YOU WANT TO PLUG IT IN? YOU HAVE THE YOU HAVE ALL THIS STUFF ON THE USB. OKAY? OKAY, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, MR CHAIRMAN. MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. MY NAME IS MICHAEL LARIO. I'M AN ATTORNEY AT THE FIRM OF NEMAT, DAVIS AND GOLDSTEIN. I'M HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF CO APPLICANTS. KEVIN RICH AND WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER. L. L. C. THIS IS AN APPLICATION CONCERNING PROPERTY AT 3 62 SUNSET ROAD. IT'S BLOCKED 15, RIGHT. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO TALK LOUD, OKAY? OR SHARE THEM, OKAY? THE PROPERTY IS THAT'S BETTER. 3 62 SUNSET ROAD IS BLOCKED 15001 LOT 6.1. THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR USE, VARIANTS, RELIEF AND A SITE PLAN WAIVER AS WAS MENTIONED. IT ORIGINALLY INCLUDED AN INTERPRETATION REQUEST. THAT INTERPRETATION REQUEST HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT PRIOR TO TONIGHT'S MEETING, SO IT IS JUST A USE VARIANCE APPLICATION AND THEN A WAIVER OF SITE PLAN REVIEW AND WHAT WE ARE SEEKING IS TO ESTABLISH A RESIDENTIAL. DETOX AND TREATMENT FACILITY AT THE SUBJECT SITE. THIS IS A SOMEWHAT UNIQUE CASE, AND I'M SURE THIS BOARD HERE IS THAT A LOT, BUT THERE'S A FEW UNIQUE FACTORS THAT THAT I WOULD JUST RUN THROUGH QUICKLY BEFORE WE GET TO OUR WITNESSES. UM THEY'RE INFUSED WITH MANY PUBLIC INTERESTS. I THINK THE FIRST UNIQUE FACTOR HERE IS THE SITE ITSELF. THIS SITE LITTLE OVER 13 ACRES, VERY LARGE SITE. IT'S HEAVILY WOODED ON THREE SIDES. THE BUILDINGS. EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS ARE LOCATED CENTRALLY ON THE SITE ITSELF. UM, I THINK ANOTHER UNIQUE FACTOR HERE AND AGAIN. YOU'LL HEAR TESTIMONY ON THIS TONIGHT IS HISTORY OF THIS SITE. IN 1977 THE TOWNSHIP, MONTGOMERY. IT APPROVED A USE VARIANCE TO ALLOW A HALFWAY HOUSE. TO FUNCTION TO BE ESTABLISHED AT THE SITE FOR WOMEN IN RECOVERY FROM THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION. 1977 I KNOW THE BETTY FORD CLINIC, WHICH IS USUALLY PUT THESE TREATMENT FACILITIES IN THE MAINSTREAM THAT DIDN'T OPEN UNTIL 1982 AND I SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP WAS ON THE VANGUARD WHEN IT CAME TO REALIZING THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE FACILITIES AND WAY BACK IN 77. IT FOUGHT TO HAVE ONE OF THESE FACILITIES IN ITS COMMUNITY, AND I SAY, FOUGHT BECAUSE A NEIGHBOR APPEALED THAT APPROVAL, AND MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP WENT TO COURT TO ALLOW THAT APPROVAL. TO REMAIN AND AT ONE AND WHAT WAS ESTABLISHED WAS THE CRAWFORD HOUSE, AND I'M SURE [00:55:03] MANY ON THE BOARD ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. UM THE LAST PIECE I THINK IS VERY UNIQUE ABOUT THIS APPLICATION IS THE SET OF LAWS THAT APPLY AND OBVIOUSLY THE MUNICIPAL SET OF LAWS THAT APPLY. OBVIOUSLY THE MUNICIPAL LAND USE LAW IS GOING TO GOVERN HERE. BUT THERE'S ALSO LAWS THAT APPLY BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH INDIVIDUALS IN RECOVERY FROM THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION, DISABLED INDIVIDUALS UNDER THE LAW. THEREFORE THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT , THE NEW JERSEY LAW AGAINST DISCRIMINATION, THE FEDERAL FAIR HOUSING ACT. THOSE LAWS BECOME APPLICABLE BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THESE INDIVIDUALS SUFFERING THROUGH THIS DISEASE. NOW I MENTIONED BRIEFLY SOME OF THE HISTORY OF THIS SITE, OBVIOUSLY 1977 THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL TO ALLOW THIS HALFWAY HOUSE TREATMENT FACILITY WAS GRANTED THROUGH THE YEARS. THERE'S BEEN SUBSEQUENT APPLICATIONS TO THIS BOARD FOR APPROVALS ALLOWING FOR THE EXPANSION OF THAT FACILITY. ULTIMATELY IN 2001 AND 2002. THERE WERE A PAIR OF APPROVALS THAT EXPANDED THAT HALFWAY HOUSE TO 22 RESIDENTS UP TO 13 STAFF MEMBERS. IT ALLOWED FOR A BUILDING EXPANSION OF THE SITE. AND IT'S REALLY THOSE BUILDING THAT BUILDING EXPANSION WAS CONSTRUCTED AND THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICANT SEEKS TO OCCUPY TODAY . AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THERE IS NO EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING BUILDING. AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION, WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO ADD ANY ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS WERE NOT LOOKING TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING THE FOOTPRINT IN ANY WAY. AND WHAT I WOULD ADD, IS WHAT'S UNIQUE IS THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS A LICENSED TREATMENT FACILITY UNDER THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY UNDER THE DIVISION OF HEALTH, AND YOU'LL HEAR A LOT OF TESTIMONY TONIGHT AS TO WHAT THAT MEANS IN THE PROCESS THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH TO GET THAT. BUT IN ORDER TO RECEIVE THOSE LICENSES LICENSES FROM THE STATE THEY HAD TO ABIDE BY THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE STATE FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS. UM 88 COMPLIANCE. COMMERCIAL KITCHEN, ALL THESE THINGS THAT THE STATE LOOKS FOR AND PROVIDING THAT LICENSE TO CRAWFORD HOUSE. THAT'S WHY THIS STUDY. THIS SITE IS SO ATTRACTIVE TO OUR CLIENT BECAUSE THEY SIMILARLY HAVE TO BE LICENSED BY THE STATE AND MANY OF THOSE SAME RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE HAD TO ABIDE BY. SO TOO, WILL OUR CLIENT HAVE TO ABIDE BY AND HERE'S THIS SITE. ESSENTIALLY BUILT WITH THOSE REGULATIONS IN MIND. SO. THE WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER WILL BE THE OPERATOR OF THE SITE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR TESTIMONY TONIGHT AS TO WHAT EXACTLY A RESIDENTIAL DETOX AND TREATMENT FACILITY WILL BE. YOU'LL HEAR TESTIMONY AS THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS FROM THE TREATMENT PROVIDER. WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVES OF WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER, MR TYLER KEMPSON, AND AGAIN HE WILL RUN THROUGH THE PROCESS OF WHAT EXACTLY THAT TREATMENT MEANS YOU ALSO HEAR ABOUT THE UNBELIEVABLE NEED FOR FACILITIES LIKE THIS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. UM AND THAT'S BOTH SOMERSET COUNTY, MERCER COUNTY AND THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY. THE FACTS AND FIGURES REALLY SHOW THAT THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES ARE THERE SIMPLY JUST NOT ENOUGH OF THEM AND THE DIRE NEED OF THOSE SUFFERING THROUGH THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION IS NOT BEING MET BOTH IN THIS COUNTY AND STATE WIDE. NO I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY A CERTAIN SET OF FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS THAT APPLY BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH DISABLED INDIVIDUALS. THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU'LL HEAR THROUGHOUT. THIS PRESENTATION WILL REFERENCE THE REQUEST FOR A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION AND THAT REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION COMES FROM THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT. ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT MEANS IS WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A DISABLED, DISABLED INDIVIDUAL LIKE WHAT WE HAVE IS PROPOSING TO RESIDE IN THIS HOME. UM YOU MISSED. EXCUSE ME. THE MUNICIPALITY NEEDS TO PROVIDE THEM A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION TO RECEIVE THE TREATMENT THEY NEED FROM QUALIFIED TREATMENT PROVIDER. NOW JUST TO BE CLEAR THESE FACILITY. THE FACILITY THAT WE'RE PROPOSING WILL BE A PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE FACILITY. THE INDIVIDUALS THERE WILL BE THERE ON THEIR OWN ACCORD. NO ONE IS MANDATED TO BE THERE. THESE ARE PEOPLE. LAWYERS, DOCTORS, ENGINEERS, PILOTS THAT HAVE MADE A DETERMINATION THAT THEY WANT TO SEEK HELP AND USING THEIR PRIVATE INSURANCE HAVE APPLIED FOR AND WILL RESIDE AT THIS RESIDENCE THAT ONCE THEY'RE THERE, AND WITHIN THE PROGRAM, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COME AND GO FROM THE SITE. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS WHEN YOU'RE THERE AND YOU GO THROUGH THE DETOX AND THE IMPATIENT YOU ARE ON SITE. SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE GOING OUT TO GET LUNCH. THEY'RE STILL WORKING. THEY ARE THERE ON SITE, AND THEY WILL BE RESTRICTED TO THE BUILDING ITSELF DURING THEIR STAY. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO WALK OUTSIDE THE BUILDING. THEY ARE NOT. AND AGAIN, THE INDIVIDUALS. AND YOU'LL YOU'LL HEAR TESTIMONY TONIGHT AFTER THE SCREENING PROCESS FOR THE INDIVIDUALS THEMSELVES IN ORDER TO GET INTO THIS FACILITY. NOW [01:00:01] THE LICENSING AS I MENTIONED, THERE'S PRETTY RIGOROUS LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR THESE FACILITIES. MR KEMPSON, WITH HIS YEARS OF EXPERTISE WILL BE ABLE TO WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT THAT EXACTLY MEANS AND WHAT THE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT THEY'LL HAVE TO ABIDE BY IN OPERATING ONE OF THESE FACILITIES, AND OBVIOUSLY AS A CONDITION OF ANY APPROVAL, THEY WILL NEED TO OBTAIN AND MAINTAIN THIS REQUIRED LICENSING IN ORDER TO OPERATE THIS NOW WE ARE SEEKING A USE VARIANCE. BUT WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS AN INHERENTLY BENEFICIAL USE. I KNOW THERE WAS SOME TALK OF THE INHERENTLY BENEFICIAL USE ON THE FIRST APPLICATION. UM BUT YOU'LL HEAR TESTIMONY FROM OUR PLANNER, MR JAMES KYLE, THAT AGAIN THIS RESIDENTIAL REHABILITATION FACILITY THROUGH THE EXISTING STATUTE AND TO RELEVANT CASE LAW IS AN INHERENTLY BENEFICIAL USE . AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE POSITIVE CRITERIA IS PRESUMED SATISFIED. THEREFORE WE LOOK TO THE NEGATIVE CRITERIA TWO PART TEST. THE FIRST IS THE SECRET TEST AND YOU'LL HEAR MR KYLE RUN THROUGH THE FOUR PARTS OF THE SIKH ATTEST THE FOUR PART TEST. ADDITIONALLY THE APPLICANT MUST ESTABLISH THAT THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIAL IMPAIRMENT TO THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE ZONE PLAN. WE BELIEVE THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THE PROPOSAL HERE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CHANGES TO THE SITE IS ACTUALLY LESS IMPACTFUL THAN WHAT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS THAT IT WILL HAVE A LESS OF AN IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS AND WHAT WAS OUT THERE PREVIOUSLY. WITH THAT. I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE THE WITNESSES FOR TONIGHT, EVERYONE YOU'RE GOING TO CALL AS A WITNESS TO STAND UP IN FRONT ON THIS SIDE OF THE PODIUM AND EVERYONE ANY BOARD EXPERT STAND UP ON THAT SIDE OF THE PODIUM. WHO'S GOING TO BE A WITNESS? AND ASK EVERYONE TO PLEASE RAISE THEIR RIGHT HAND. AND DOES EVERYONE SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE HIM THIS MATTER WILL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH START OVER HERE TO A MIC. IDENTIFY YOURSELF. SPELL YOUR LAST NAME SLOWLY AND GIVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE APPLICANT OR THE BOARD AS THE CASE MAY BE TYLER KEMPSON. THE LAST NAME IS SPELLED K E M. P. S O. N. I AM THE CO OWNER AND MANAGING DIRECTOR OF WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER. OKAY. NEXT. JAMES KYLE, KY. ELLIE WAS CARL MCMANUS ASSOCIATES AND HOPEWELL, NEW JERSEY APPLICANTS. PROFESSIONAL PLANNER. OKAY, THANK YOU NEXT. WHEN INGRAM WITH ENGINEERING LAND PLANNING, I AM THE APPLICANTS. ENGINEER YOU SPELL YOUR LAST NAME, PLEASE. I N G R A M. FRANCO YELLOW A E. L. L. O L O ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTS CAN YOU DO THAT AGAIN? A LITTLE LOUDER. LAST NAME, HIS NAME YELLOW A E L L O. OKAY THANKS. MICHAEL SULLIVAN, CLERK EIGHT AND HENCE BOARD PLANNER VERY MUCH ENUNCIATING. ANTHONY LOPEZ ENVIRONMENTAL RESOLUTIONS BOARD ENGINEER. AND JOSEPH FISHING, ER BRIGHT VIEW ENGINEERING, THE BOARD'S TRAFFIC ENGINEER. OKAY THANK YOU. SO I'M GONNA START WITH MR KEMPSON. ALL RIGHT, MR KEMPSON. YOU WERE JUST SWORN IN. CORRECT YES, SIR. GOING TO BE A FACT WITNESS OR AN EXPERT. HE'S GOING TO BE A FACT WITNESS. SO MR KEMPSON, IF YOU COULD COULD COULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE BOARD IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE APPLICANT? SO MY NAME IS TYLER KEMPSON. FIRST AND FOREMOST, I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT. NO, IT'S CLOSE TO THE HOLIDAYS AND WOULD MUCH RATHER BE WITH YOUR FAMILY. SO DO APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO COME OUT. SO I'M THE OWNER AND OPERATOR OF WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER. I ALSO IN THE CO FOUNDER AND OWNER OF ABSOLUTE AWAKENINGS TREATMENT CENTER, SO WE'RE A FACILITY LOCATED IN DENVILLE, NEW JERSEY, MORE SPECIFICALLY MORRIS COUNTY. WE'VE BEEN IN OPERATION FOR THREE YEARS NOW. SO IT DOWN A LITTLE. OKAY TAKING NOTES. SO, YEAH, WE'VE BEEN IN OPERATION FOR THREE YEARS. NOW WE ARE PRIMARY SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER IN PRIMARY MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY. WE ACTUALLY HOLD THE HIGHEST ACCREDITATION IN THE UNITED STATES FOR A HEALTH CARE FACILITY, WHICH IS THE JOINT COMMISSION ACCREDITATION. SO WE'VE BEEN OPENED THREE YEARS WE HAVE TREATED OVER 750 CLIENTS SINCE WE'VE BEEN OPEN, AND I'M ALSO A PERSON IN LONG TERM RECOVERY MYSELF. SO I'VE BEEN SOBER FOR OVER A DECADE NOW DEDICATED AND MADE IT MY LIFE'S MISSION TO HELP PEOPLE ACHIEVE SOBRIETY. SO HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE FIELD OF PROVIDING TREATMENT FOR ADDICTION? UH SO PROFESSIONALLY FIVE YEARS AND THEN NON PROFESSIONALLY IN A GRASSROOTS EFFORT ABOUT 10 YEARS NOW. OKAY AND JUST TO BE CLEAR FOR THE RECORD. OBVIOUSLY WE'RE CO APPLICANTS HERE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN KEVIN RICE AND WHAT? MY TREATMENT CENTER LLC, KEVIN RICH WILL ACTUALLY BE PURCHASING THE PROPERTY AND WE WILL BE THE [01:05:05] TENANT ON SITE RENTING THE PROPERTY FROM KEVIN. SO KEVIN WILL BE A PROPERTY OWNER AGAIN. YOU'LL BE THE OPERATOR. CORRECT, OKAY? SO FIRST QUESTION I'D LIKE TO IN MY OPENING. I MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT AS THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. AND WHAT'S YOUR FAMILIARITY WITH THE CRAWFORD HOUSE OFFERED HOUSE REALLY WAS A STAPLE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY NOT ONLY ON A LOCAL LEVEL, BUT ON A STATE LEVEL OF THEY'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE 1977. SO OVER 40 YEARS THEY WERE TREATING THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION ON THAT PROPERTY. AND THEY REALLY DID HAVE A GREAT REPUTATION AND DID AMAZING WORK, SO THEY WERE LICENSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH JUST LIKE WE WOULD BE. THEY HAD A RESIDENTIAL SUBSTANCE USE FACILITY LICENSE, SO THAT'S THE SAME LICENSE THAT WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER WOULD BE GETTING FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. A LITTLE BIT OF THE LAYOUT. CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT AS TO WHAT THE LAYOUT OF CRAWFORD HOUSES THAT IS SO ATTRACTIVE TO THE PROPOSED USE, SO I DO BELIEVE IT'S UNIQUELY FITTED FOR OUR USE. LIKE I SAID IT WAS ALREADY LICENSED AS A RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH THROUGH THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY . IT'S ALREADY 88 COMPLIANCE HAS A FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM. HAS A COMMERCIAL GRADE KITCHEN. THERE'S ALREADY A LIVING ROOM, A DINING ROOM ON SITE. THERE IS A GROUP ROOM ON SITE. THERE'S COUNSELOR'S OFFICE IS ALREADY ON SITE AS WELL. SORRY I'M A LITTLE LITTLE NERVOUS CELL. LOOK I'M GETTING HIM THE SLOWDOWN SIGN. OKAY THERE ARE COUNSELORS OFFICE IS ALREADY ON SITE. IT'S REALLY SET IN THE STATES EYES. IT'S ALREADY A RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER. IT'S ALREADY BEEN LICENSED AS THAT. SO THAT'S THAT'S ONE REASON WHY I DO THINK IT'S A UNIQUE, UNIQUE FIT. SECONDLY, IT'S ON 13 ACRES OF PROPERTY. IT IS TUCKED AWAY. THERE IS TREES ON MOST OF THE PROPERTY, SO I DO THINK IT'S TUCKED AWAY AND I DO BELIEVE IT WAS A GREAT RESOURCE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND HELPED A LOT OF PEOPLE SO THAT WENT INTO OUR DECISION AS WELL. OKAY? NOW KNOWING WHAT A RESOURCE TO CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY FAMILIAR WITH ITS OPERATIONS. GIVEN THAT YOU'RE IN IN THE TREE, THE TREATMENT FIELD CAN YOU SPEAK TO JUST AND AGAIN? OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GONNA ASK YOU ABOUT HOW WOODMONT OPERATES DAY TODAY, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROVIDE TO THE BOARD A LITTLE BIT AS TO HOW CRAWFORD HOUSE OPERATED TO COMPARE THE TWO SO CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT AS TO THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS THAT YOU THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF? AS SOMEONE WHO'S FAMILIAR WITH THE FIELD OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE BEFORE WE GET THERE? BASED ON THE LAST COMMENT, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE HAD LICENSING OR THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS THE SAME. FOR A FACILITY LIKE THE CRAWFORD HOUSE AND THE FACILITY THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. CORRECT SO THE ACTUAL LICENSE IS A RESIDENTIAL SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT FACILITIES. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE CRAWFORD HOUSES LICENSE, IT WOULD SAY THAT UNDER THAT THERE'S DIFFERENT SERVICES . SO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE PROVIDED HALFWAY HOUSE SERVICES UNDER OUR SERVICES. WE WOULD BE THE RESIDENTIAL DETOX AND RESIDENTIAL IMPATIENT PORTION THE SAME. YEAH, SAME LICENSE. GRANTED BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT CRITERIA FOR WHAT YOU APPLIED TO THIS LICENSE. CORRECT. AND UNDER THE STATE'S REGULATIONS THEY HAVE ABOUT 400 PAGE PAMPHLET OF ALL DIFFERENT REGULATIONS THAT THEY PROVIDE YOU. IT TALKS ABOUT HALFWAY HOUSES AND RESIDENTIAL, INPATIENT AND RESIDENTIAL DETOX SERVICES UNDER THE SAME PACKET. THERE'S STILL UNDER THAT THAT TREATMENT OF THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT UMBRELLA. SPECIFICALLY ARE THE. LICENSING REQUIREMENTS IDENTICAL. WILL YOU BE ABLE TO GET THE RESIDENTIAL SUBSTANCE ABUSE LICENSE WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING TO THE BUILDING OR SITE? IT? YOU WON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES WHATSOEVER. NOT EVEN YOU KNOW, CHANGES REALLY RESIDE IN THE STAFF ON SITE. SO HALFWAY HOUSE SERVICE. YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A MEDICAL DIRECTOR. YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A NURSE ON SITE. YOU REALLY JUST NEED COUNSELOR THERAPIST GROUP FACILITATOR TO RUN GROUPS. IT'S MORE CLINICAL FOCUSED. OUR PROGRAM WOULD BE CLINICAL FOCUSED, BUT WE ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE A MEDICAL DIRECTOR ON A PER DIEM BASIS AND THEN A REGISTERED NURSE ON STAFF AS WELL. I THINK WE GET TO THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS. YOU'LL UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR ALL THOSE. BUT THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS THE STAFFING REQUIREMENTS WILL BE DIFFERENT IN YOUR TESTIMONY IS OTHER THAN STAFFING REQUIREMENTS. ALL THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS FOR THE STATE LICENSE OR 100% IDENTICAL TESTIMONY. THEY'RE NOT IDENTICAL . IN THAT SENSE. THEY'RE IDENTICAL ON THE WAY THAT THERE HAS TO BE A MEDICATION STORAGE ROOM ON SITE FOR A HALFWAY HOUSE . IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE OPERATED BY A REGISTERED NURSE. IT JUST HAS TO BE A ROOM WHERE THE MEDICATION IS STORED. FOR A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY. IT HAS TO BE A NURSE'S STATION, SO THE PHYSICAL PLANT HAS TO BE A NURSE'S STATION WHERE THE NURSE WOULD HAND OUT MEDICATION. SO WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME THINGS THAT INTERNALLY [01:10:02] ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE CONSTRUCTED. CORRECT YEAH, THEY'RE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR INSTEAD OF SAYING THEY'RE IDENTICAL. THEY'RE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR. THERE MAY BE SOME MINOR AND WE ARE PROPOSING AS ARCHITECTURAL PLANS PROVIDED SOME UPDATES TO THE INTERIOR OF THE FACILITY. YES OKAY. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT. SO UM, MICHAEL, MY QUESTION IS, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S AN UMBRELLA LICENSE. UNDER THAT LICENSE, YOU CAN DO CERTAIN THINGS AND THE CRAWFORD HOUSE COULD ONLY DO CERTAIN THINGS. SO YOU WERE GOING TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE DID AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. SO YOU MENTIONED YOU HAVE WORD. SORRY. GO AHEAD. YOU MENTIONED YOU HAVE A JAECKEL LICENSE, SO THE OTHER FACILITY HAS A JOINT COMMISSION ACCREDITATION THAT I OWN. WELL, WHAT IS IT? JACOB RELATIONS. TALKS ABOUT HEALTHCARE ACCREDITATION LICENSE PROCESS, IT REALLY IS THE HIGHEST STANDARD FOR A HEALTH CARE FACILITY, SO THERE'S CERTAIN EXTRA CRITERIA OF REGULATIONS THAT A TREATMENT CENTER OR ANY HEALTH CARE FACILITY HAS TO ABIDE BY SO AND THAT'S THE ABSOLUTE AWAKENINGS FACILITY. CORRECT THAT'S THE OTHER TREATMENT CENTER THAT I OWN IN MORRIS COUNTY. DO YOU NEED ONE OF THESE LICENSES HERE? YOU DO NOT. IT'S JUST AN EXTRA LICENSE THAT YOU CAN GET AS AN ACCREDITATION FOR A HEALTH CARE FACILITY. THIS LICENSE JOINT COMMISSION DIRECTLY. THE COMMISSION OF WHAT RIGHT NOW? SO YOU'RE YOU'RE TALKING TO A BOARD AND THE BOARD ATTORNEY AND A LOT OF THE BOARD EXPERTS THAT THEY HAVEN'T HAD ONE OF THESE EVER SO ASSUME THAT WE KNOW NOTHING. YOU HAVE TO EDUCATE THE ENTIRE BOARD STATE ORGANIZATION. CORRECT THIS IS NOT A STATE ORGANIZATION. IT'S AN OUTSIDE ORGANIZATION THAT THAT COMES IN FOR DIFFERENT HEALTHCARE FACILITIES AND GIVES THEM A HIGHER ACCREDITATION. THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO OBTAIN THIS IN ORDER TO RUN THE FACILITY, CORRECT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT IN ACCREDITATION. IT'S A RECOGNITION BY A WHAT OF WHAT RECOGNITION BY GUESS YOU COULD SAY AN OUTSIDE COMPANY THAT HOLDS THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY TO A HIGHER STANDARD. SO WHAT ONE OF THEM FROM HOSPITALS. HOSPITALS WILL HAVE IT AS WELL. HOSPITALS CAN GET THE JOINT COMMISSION ACCREDITATION. IT'S NOT JUST FOR A TREATMENT FACILITY. YES THERE'S NOT VERY RELEVANT. THE REASON I ASKED. THAT QUESTION IS GENERALLY AND I HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE OF THIS. THE COMMISSION AS WELL AS THE JACKAL LICENSE, ETCETERA AND WHY AND WHEN IT'S USED SINCE YOU MENTIONED IT GENERALLY, IS IT FAIR TO ASSUME THAT ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES WILL BE THAT YOUR INSURANCES AND THE LIABILITIES, ETCETERA THAT YOU HAVE WILL BE VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO OPERATE VERSUS WHAT CRAWFORD HOUSE USED TO OPERATE. YOUR INSURANCES WILL BE DIFFERENT. THE LIABILITIES THAT YOU'RE COVERING ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. CORRECT YES, I DO HAVE IN DEPTH TESTIMONY ON OUR FACILITY COMPARED TO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE AND HOW THEY OPERATED BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THAT QUESTION, AND I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. MR SAYING, UM AND I KNOW YOU WANT TO PROCEED ALONG WITH YOUR TESTIMONY, BUT I WANT TO JUST CLARIFY THIS. THIS POINT ABOUT THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS. YOUR TESTIMONY IS THAT YOU WON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY MAJOR MODIFICATIONS. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE NURSES STANDARD AND THE MEDICAL MIDDLE MEDICAL DIRECTOR REGISTERED NURSE AND THEY NEED A NURSE'S STATION. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO INSTALL AND ASSUME THEIR ARCHITECT IS GOING TO GO THROUGH THE PLANS AND SHOW WHATEVER OTHER INTERNAL RENOVATIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE MADE IN MY CORRECT IT'S ABOARD THEIR ALL INTO INTERNAL RENOVATIONS OF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE US TO WALK THROUGH WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. THERE ARE I MEAN, THAT IS I WAS EXCELLENT URINE. YOU ANTICIPATED MY QUESTION. YOU MAY HAVE ANTICIPATED MY QUESTION. THERE ARE NO EXTERNAL MODIFICATIONS INTO INCLUDE, AND WHEN I'M CONSIDERING EXTERNAL SECURITY FEATURES. SUCH AS ADDITIONAL LOCKS ON THE DOORS OR WINDOWS OR ANYTHING LIKE THIS. SO. I'M GONNA WILL ANSWER THAT CHAIRMAN . IF WE IF WE GET INTO THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO ANSWER A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS. UNDERSTANDING I'M ASKING IN REFERENCE TO THE LICENSING LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR A FACILITY SUCH AS THIS AND WE WE'VE YOU TESTIFIED THAT THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. SO I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY IF YOU'RE TYPE OF FACILITY REQUIRES ADDITIONAL SECURITY TYPE FEATURES. AH IN IN WHATEVER BUILDING YOU OCCUPY. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU SAID THAT YOU NEED THE SAME LICENSE THAT CRAWFORD HOUSE HAD A RESIDENTIAL SUBSTANCE ABUSE LICENSE. BUT YOU SAID IT WAS GOING TO BE UNDER DIFFERENT CRITERIA. THE CHAIRMAN'S QUESTION IS, DO THOSE CRITERIA REQUIRE YOU TO DO CERTAIN THINGS? FOR EXAMPLE? DO YOU NEED YOU KNOW EXTRA LOCKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT? THAT WAS HIS QUESTION. WE DO NOT THIS DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE THANK YOU QUESTION ABOUT THE OTHER COMPANY. ABSOLUTE AWAKENINGS. IS THAT A INPATIENT OR OUTPATIENT? PATIENT FACILITY. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO LET'S LET'S START. I THINK AGAIN IT STARTING WITH THE CRAWFORD HOUSE, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT GIVES A GOOD [01:15:01] IDEA OF WHAT WAS THERE PREVIOUSLY. REALLY UPFRONT OVER 40 YEARS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD A LITTLE BIT AS TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE OPERA THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE? SO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS APPROVED IN 1977. THEY WERE LICENSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH UNDER THE SAME TYPE OF LICENSE. WE HAVE A RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE LICENSE IS THE SERVICE UNDER IT, SO THEIR SERVICE ON THE LICENSE IS FOR HALFWAY HOUSE SERVICES. WE WOULD BE RESIDENTIAL DETOX AND RESIDENTIAL INPATIENT SERVICES PEACOCKS DETOX. WOULD YOU HAVE DIFFERENT MEDICATIONS ON SITE VERSUS WHAT CRAWFORD EYES MORE? UM, UM UM. I GUESS MEDICATIONS, WHICH NEED TO BE TO THE CHAIRMAN'S POINT UNDER BETTER SECURITY THAN WHAT CRAWFORD CURRENTLY HAS. YES. SO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE THE PATIENTS, THEY WERE SELF ADMINISTERING THEIR OWN MEDICATION. SO ON THE STAFF AT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE, THERE WAS A MEDICAL LIAISON. THAT WOULD BOOK THE OUTSIDE APPOINTMENTS FOR THE PATIENTS ON SITE THEY WOULD LEAVE THE PROPERTY WOULD BE TRANSPORTED THROUGHOUT THE DAY TO ATTEND THESE DOCTORS APPOINTMENTS AND GET THEIR MEDICATION FROM THE DOCTOR. BRING IT BACK ON SITE. IT WAS STORED ON SITE AND THEY WOULD TAKE IT THEMSELVES. THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN AT OUR FACILITY, SO IT'S UNDER A HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS MANAGEMENT. A NURSE WOULD BE GIVING THESE PEOPLE THE MEDICATION. IN A MORE CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT. IS IT FAIR TO ASSUME THAT YOU WILL HAVE BETTER SECURITY AROUND THESE MEDICATIONS? DRUGS THAT YOU WILL HAVE CORRECT? YES, THERE WILL BE SOME CHANGE IN THE SECURITY FEATURES THAT'S CRAWFORD HOUSE HAS VERSUS WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE. YES SO THE MEDICATION AT THE NURSE'S STATION WILL BE MONITORED BY THE NURSE AT ALL TIMES, AND THERE HAS TO BE A NURSE ON STAFF AT ALL TIMES DURING OUR OPERATION. BUT I THINK TO SECURITY JUST WANT THAT THE CHAIRMAN'S QUESTION SECURITY FOR LOCKS IN FOR THE INDIVIDUALS THAT'S NOT CHANGING, CORRECT CORRECT. SO THIS THE CRAWFORD HOUSE, HE SPEAK A LITTLE BIT AS TO THE FUNDING FOR THAT. I KNOW WHAT WE MENTIONED THAT THAT, UM WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING WILL BE A PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE FACILITY. THERE'S OBVIOUSLY MANY WAYS THAT THESE FACILITIES ARE FUNDED. YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT AS THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. YES SO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE THEY WERE STATE FUNDED FACILITY, SO THE REAL TYPE OF POPULATION THEY WERE SERVING WAS MEDICAID PATIENTS, INDIGENOUS OR HOMELESS PEOPLE AS WELL AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE THAT ATTENDED THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. MAYBE THEY WERE LOOKING AT A JAIL SENTENCE WERE PRISON SENTENCE AND GOT SENTENCED TO DRUG COURT PROBATION. AND IN LIEU OF GOING TO PRISON OR DRUG COURT. THEY WOULD ATTEND THE FACILITY INSTEAD OF GOING TO JAIL. SO IT REALLY IS A DIFFERENT POPULATION THAN WE'RE LOOKING TO SERVE. YOU JUST CLARIFY YOU. YOU'RE GIVING TESTIMONY ABOUT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. UM I KNOW YOU SAID YOU HAD IT HAS A REPUTATION A POSITIVE REPUTATION. WE ARE GENERALLY FAMILIAR, BUT I'M KIND OF WONDERING WHERE YOU'RE GETTING YOUR INFORMATION ABOUT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. WHAT EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE? IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S BASED ON PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE. DID YOU READ ABOUT IT THAT SOMEONE TELL YOU ABOUT IT? SO I ASKED THE PREVIOUS OPERATOR OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE FOR THIS INFORMATION FOR THE TESTIMONY AND IF HE WAS AN EXPERT HE COULD RELY ON THAT SORT OF HEARSAY STUFF. HE'S A FACT TO WITNESS. SO HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THIS IS GONNA THINK SOME OF IT IN HIS KNOWLEDGE AS A TREATMENT PROVIDER CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THESE HALFWAY HOUSES, ANSWERING SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT CRAWFORD HOUSE BASED ON WHAT SOMEONE ELSE TOLD HIM. THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT HE'S SAYING. SO WHY DON'T WE KEEP ON GOING? BUT WELL. SEE IF IT PRESENTS AN ISSUE. OKAY, SO. FOR THE CRAWFORD HOUSING AND AGAINST HOW MANY RESIDENTS WERE ALLOWED AT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. AND WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION? ONCE THEY CLOSED THAT THEY WERE SERVING 22 RESIDENTS AT ANY GIVEN TIME, AND THEY HAD 22 BEDS ON SITE, AND I GOT THIS INFORMATION FROM THE PREVIOUS OPERATOR AT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. IT'S ALSO IN A PRIOR RESOLUTION OF APPROVAL GRANTED BY THE SPORT, WHICH ALLOWED 22 RESIDENTS OF WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL THAT GAVE THIS INFORMATION? HIM. YEAH, HE'S ACTUALLY HERE TONIGHT. I COULD YEAH. WHY DON'T WE YES, SIR. HE WAS OKAY. LOOK IT'S GONNA BE UP TO YOU. BUT IF I WAS OBJECTING TO THIS APPLICATION THIS. THIS IS A PROBLEM. ALL RIGHT, JUST SO YOU KNOW, A LOT OF INFORMATION IS FROM THE RESOLUTION APPROVED. BUT IF IT'S UP TO THE BORDER. WE CAN CALL IT PUT IT THIS WAY. ONE IT'S YOUR CALL SHOULD BE YOUR CALL ON WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. BUT I'M JUST I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE THAT THIS. THE TESTIMONY THAT THIS FACT WITNESSES PROVIDING RIGHT NOW, EVEN THOUGH TECHNICALLY HEARSAY EVIDENCE IS NOT PROHIBITED IN AN ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING SETTING, [01:20:01] HOWEVER, STAND THE PERSON WHO'S TESTIFYING HAS TO BE ABLE TO BE SUBJECT TO CROSS EXAMINATION ON THE UNDERLYING INFORMATION, AND HE'S GETTING IT FROM SOMEONE ELSE. HE'S NOT AN EXPERT, AND SO RULE 703 OF THE NEW JERSEY RULES OF EVIDENCE DON'T APPLY. AND ULTIMATELY, THE GUY IN THE ORANGE SHIRT CAN ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. I TRY TO LIMIT IT TO JUST QUESTIONS THAT HE CAN RESPOND TO GENERALLY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE AND SOMETHING HE READ . IDENTIFY WHAT HE READ. IF IT'S A BOARD RESOLUTION, THE BOARD TAKES JUDICIAL NOTICE OF ITS OWN RESOLUTIONS. YES OKAY, IF IT'S IF IT'S A LETTER THAT UM JIM, WHAT'S HIS LAST NAME AGAIN? CURTAIN CURTAIN, YOU KNOW, CENTER SOMETHING. THAT'S A NO. NO OKAY, UNDERSTOOD, UNDERSTOOD . JUST ASK FOR A COOK CLARIFICATION. WHAT YEAR DID CRAWFORD HAS CLOSED? IF YOU KNOW 20, I DON'T KNOW I HONESTLY 2019 OR 2020 2020 NOW JUST WITHIN THE PAST THREE YEARS AGO, WAS IT DURING THE TIME OF THE COVID PANDEMIC CORRECT SHUT DOWN DUE TO THE PANDEMIC. JIM'S HERE. WE MAY ASK HIM IF HE WANTS TO TESTIFY AND PROVIDE SOME OF THIS THIS INFORMATION ON THE RECORD JUST INSTEAD OF GETTING THROUGH MR KEMPSON AND GOING BACK TO JIM, AND IF THERE'S ANY FOLLOW UP AND MAYBE MAKE MORE SENSE, SO IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT, THEN, JUST A QUICK TWO MINUTES WE CAN TALK TO JIM. AND THEN HE CAN ANSWER SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS AGAIN. THEY'RE STRAIGHTFORWARD QUESTIONS, BUT WE CAN DO A FIVE MINUTE RECESS IS YEAH, LET'S DO LET'S DO FIVE MINUTES. THANK YES. CHAIRMAN SO WE HAVE A NEW WITNESS. WE HAVE A NEW WITNESS. IDENTIFY YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD . PUBLIC DOWN. HOLD ON. JUST LET ME. THE PUBLIC. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM TALKING. WE'RE PROCEEDING WITH THE APPLICATION. CAN YOU COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE SO WE CAN HEAR YOU? CAN YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF, JAMES CURTAINS C U R T I N. OKAY AND WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE IS THE FORMER CEO OF DAYTOP VILLAGE OF NEW JERSEY INK THAT OPERATED THE CRAWFORD HOUSE FROM 2014? AH UNTIL PRESENTLY, DATA NOW HAS MERGED. WE ARE NOW ASCENDED INTEGRATED HEALTH, BUT I WAS THE CEO OF CRAWFORD HOUSE WHILE IT WAS IN OPERATION FROM 14 YOU AS A FORMER CEO OF THE PRIOR OPERATOR OF CRAWFORD HOUSE THAT WOULD BE CORRECT CURRENCY OF THE FORMER CEO OF CRAWFORD HOUSE. GREAT YOU'RE THE CURRENT CEO OF THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY THAT NO, NO, HE'S IN A DIFFERENT ROLE NOW AFTER EMERGED, THEN SAYING WHAT HE'S DOING NOW, BUT HE'S FOR PURPOSES OF THIS YEAR, AND YOU'RE THE FORMER CEO OF CRAWFORD HOUSE. CORRECT YES, WOULD HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ALL SORTS OF THINGS ABOUT CRAWFORD HOUSE, CORRECT? YES. LIKE THIS. HE'S A FACT WITNESS. I DON'T NEED TO ACCEPT DONE. THIS WORD OF IT. YEAH IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. CAN YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SHIRT OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE ME THE TRUTH? WHOLE TRUTH? NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. THANK YOU, MR KYLE. SO MR CURTAIN JUST TO CONFIRM YOU WERE IN THE ROOM FOR MR KEMPSON. ALL OF MR CAPTAIN'S TESTIMONY RIGHT BEFORE I ASK YOU ANY QUESTIONS. YOU WOULD AGREE, MR KEMPSON CHARACTER CHARACTERIZATION OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS CORRECT. YES OKAY. NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE CRAWFORD HOUSE AND THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. OKAY? SO CAN YOU FIRST TALK? OBVIOUSLY YOU HEARD THE 22 RESIDENTS WAS WHAT ULTIMATELY, THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS ALLOWED TO HAVE ON SITE. COULD YOU TALK ABOUT DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS FOR THOSE 22 RESIDENTS? WHAT A NORMAL DAY LOOK LIKE FOR THEM. THERE WERE PHASES AND I'M SORRY, AND THE WOMEN IN OUR CARE IF THEY WERE IN THE FIRST PHASE OF TREATMENT, WHICH TYPICALLY WOULD LAST 30 DAYS THEN, FOR THE MOST PART, THEY WERE RESTRICTED. TO THE FACILITY UNLESS THEY WERE BEING TRANSPORTED TO PARTICULARLY 12 STEP SUPPORT MEETINGS. I THOUGHT UNDER THE UNDER THE 1977 BOARD RESOLUTION , CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS ONLY THE THIRD STEP, NOT THE FIRST OR SECOND STEP AND MY INCORRECT I'M SORRY, SIR. I'M NOT FOLLOWING YOUR QUESTION. I THOUGHT YOU WERE DESCRIBING PEOPLE IN THE CRAWFORD HOUSE THAT WE'RE IN DETOX. NOKAY. CAN YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID? THEN CRAWFORD HOUSE OPERATED AS A LICENSED HATHEWAY HOUSE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE WOMEN DID DURING THE DAY WHILE THEY WERE IN THE HALFWAY HOUSE LEVEL OF CARE. THE PROGRAM OPERATED TYPICALLY IN [01:25:02] PHASES, WITH AN AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY, ALTHOUGH IT VARIED AND IT WAS INDIVIDUALIZED, DEPENDING ON THE TREATMENT PLAN, THE PERSON CENTERED TREATMENT PLAN. THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY TYPICALLY WAS 90 DAYS COULD BE LESS COULD BE MORE. OUR AVERAGE LENGTH OF STAY WAS 90 DAYS IN THE 1ST 30 DAYS OF TREATMENT. WE CALL THAT PHASE ONE. THE NEWER WOMEN WHO ARE ADMITTED TO THE PROGRAM STAYS ONE AND I HEARD MY MIND. STEP ONE. OKAY KEEP ON GOING IN PHASE ONE FIRST PHASE ONE. TYPICALLY THAT 30 DAY PERIOD THE WOMEN WERE RESTRICTED TO THE ENVIRONMENT TO THE TREATMENT FOR THE TO THE ENVIRONMENT OF CARE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DELHI. THEY WERE DRIVEN INTO THE COMMUNITY TO ATTEND 12 STEP SUPPORT MEETINGS , BETTER KNOWN AS ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS OR NARCOTICS, AN ANIMUS WHEN THEY SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED THAT PHASE, WHICH IN THE NORMAL COURSE OF TREATMENT WOULD HAVE BEEN 30 DAYS. THEN THEY WENT OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY TO LOOK FOR WORK. AND THEY WORKED DURING THE DAY WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE THEN THEIR CLINICAL TREATMENT, THEIR GROUP THEIR INDIVIDUAL SESSIONS, POTENTIALLY VISITS WITH THEIR CHILDREN IN THE EVENING TIME AND ON WEEKENDS. AND SO THEN THE IDEA WAS TO SUPPORT THE WOMEN THROUGH COUNSELING, HELPING THEM FIND JOBS WHERE THEY COULD SAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO MOVE OFF INDEPENDENTLY TO A AND THEN A. TYPICALLY THE RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE THEY ATTENDED A LOWER LEVEL OF CARE, WHICH WOULD BE AN OUTPATIENT TREATMENT PROGRAM IN THE COMMUNITY OR THE DISSONANCE WHERE THEY LIVE. PHASE ONE, TYPICALLY 30 DAYS, PHASE TWO WHEN THEY WERE LOOKING FOR WORK AND THE COMMUNITY DURING THE DAY. HOW LONG WAS THAT PHASE TYPICALLY INDIVIDUALIZED INDEPENDENT, BUT I WOULD SAY ON AVERAGE. IF THINGS WILL WORKING WELL IN THE TREATMENT, IT WOULD BE ANOTHER 60 DAYS. THE IDEA OF A HALFWAY HOUSE IS THAT THE WOMEN HAVE COMPLETE INDEPENDENCE , AND THEY'RE REALLY COMING AND GOING, THAT'S PART OF NORMALIZING AND PREPARING THEM FOR AN EVEN LOWER LEVEL OF CARE, WHICH WOULD TYPICALLY BE IN THEIR OWN RESIDENT. RESIDENTS ARE APARTMENT AND GOING TO WORK AND THEN GOING TO TREATMENT IN A LOWER LEVEL OF CARE QUESTION. YOU SAID THAT THEY WOULD EITHER GO TO A OR N A. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE FACILITY WAS ONLY FOR WOMEN WHO WERE RECOVERING ALCOHOLICS. COULD YOU SPEAK TO THAT? I CAN ACTUALLY TAKE THAT WE NEED THE 01 AND 02 RESOLUTIONS AND EXPANDS IT FROM JUST ALCOHOLICS TO ALCOHOLICS AND DRUGS. AND THERE WERE AND YOU CAN, MR CURTAIN. YOU CAN CONFIRM THIS. THERE WERE WOMEN SUFFERING FROM BOTH THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION FOR ALCOHOLISM AND FOR DRUG ADDICTION. I WOULD SAY THIS FROM WHAT I KNOW OF THE HISTORY OF CRAWFORD HOUSE IN THE IN THE LATE SEVENTIES THAT WAS COMMON AND PRIMARY DIAGNOSIS, ALCOHOLISM. BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS IN THE TIMES THAT FROM 2014 TO 2021, GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR WORLD AND OUR SOCIETY, THE PRIMARY DIAGNOSIS FOR THE WOMEN WE SERVED WAS ONE WITH AN OPIOID USE DISORDER. SAID THAT FAMILY THEY WOULD HAVE VISITS WITH THEIR FAMILY WHERE THOSE VISITS ON SITE OR OFF SITE. INITIALLY UM, VISIT THE VISITS WERE ON ON SITE VISITS WERE ON SITE BECAUSE FROM MANY OF THE WOMEN BEING TREATED THEIR FAMILY FOR WHATEVER HAPPENED DUE TO THEIR ADDICTION, THE DEPARTMENT OF CHILD PROTECTION AND PERMANENT C HAD SOME SUPERVISION OF THEIR CHILDREN. AND SO TYPICALLY, WHEN THE CHILDREN WERE BROUGHT, THERE WOULD BE A STATE WORKER FROM WHAT WE CALL THE CPI AND PPI, WHICH IS DEPARTMENT OF CHILD PROTECTION AND PERMANENCY PRESENT WITH THEM WHAT WE DID IN ABOUT 2016, I BELIEVE IS WE RAISED MONEY TO BUILD A BEAUTIFUL 800 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING ON THE PROPERTY. AND THAT BECAME THE VISITATION ROOM SO THE MOMS COULD HAVE SOME PRIVACY RATHER THAN BEING IN THE FACILITY WHERE THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WALKING AROUND RECEIVING TREATMENT, BUT THE VISITS WERE ON SITE. TALKED ABOUT WORK. CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT? THE PART TIME WORK WAS THIS SOMETHING THAT WAS REQUIRED FOR RESIDENTS ONCE THEY WERE OUT OF PHASE ONE PART OF THE HALFWAY HOUSE LEVEL OF CARE? YES. THE EXPECTATION IS THAT YOU'RE FAR ALONG ENOUGH IN YOUR RECOVERY WHERE YOU COULD GO OUT AND GO TO WORK, SO WORK WAS DEFINITELY REQUIREMENT. IF YOU HAVE TWO THERE WERE WORKING AND THEN WE WOULD MANAGER THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS HELP THEM SAVE MONEY TO MONEY MANAGEMENT SKILLS. THE IDEA WAS TO HELP. THE WOMEN RECEIVING TREATMENT TO GO OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY FULL TIME, WHICH MEANS THEY LIVE THERE. THEY WORKED THERE. THEY PLAYED [01:30:01] THERE AND THAT REALLY WAS IT WAS AN INDIVIDUAL PROCESS EXPERIENCE , DEPENDING ON THE TREATMENT PLAN NEEDS FOR EACH OF THE WOMEN, OKAY, AND FOR THE WORK REQUIREMENT. HOW WOULD THEY GET TO WORK? THE WOMEN. WE WOULD DRIVE THEM WE WOULD DROP WE WOULD DRIVE. THE WOMEN OR VANS WOULD TAKE THE WOMEN'S. WE WOULD HAVE TRANSPORTATION ROUTES INTO PRINCETON INTO SKILLMAN INTO MONTGOMERY THAT WE WOULD DRIVE THEM, WE WOULD PICK THEM UP. AND MOST OF THE WOMEN, ALTHOUGH WORKING, JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN CARS AND THE EXPENSES THAT WENT WITH IT, SO WE WOULD DO THE TRANSPORTATION SO DIRECTLY, YOU COULD HAVE 22 WOMEN BEING DRIVEN TO DIFFERENT PART TIME JOBS AT ONE TIME THAT THAT WAS POSSIBLE TRANSPORTATION ROUTE WAS A CHALLENGE. YES, YEAH. OKAY AND THEN VISITORS. YOU MENTIONED VISITORS. HOW OFTEN WERE VISITING VISITORS COMING TO THE SITE TO SPEND TIME WITH FAMILY MEMBERS. I. I DON'T I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE NUMBER. AGAIN IT WOULD DEPEND, BUT DON'T GUESS IF YOU DON'T KNOW. JUST SAY YOU DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY. THERE WERE VISITORS AND VISITORS WERE ALLOWED, OKAY. OKAY? AND ULTIMATELY, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT TESTIMONY ON IT. THE CRAWFORD HOUSE IS NO LONGER IN OPERATION CORRECT. NO, IT'S NO LONGER SERVING ANYONE WITH A SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER AND THE REASON FOR THAT. WELL IT WAS IT WAS FINANCIAL. IT WAS PANDEMIC DRIVEN AND ULTIMATELY BECAME A BUSINESS DECISION TO DO THAT, WHEN, WHEN I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO ELABORATE OR ELABORATE, ELABORATE WHEN DATA TOOK ALL THE CRAWFORD HOUSE IN 2014 THEY WERE IN IN IN IN A BAD FINANCIAL WAY AND DATA TOOK IT OVER WITH THE FULL UNDERSTANDING THAT TYPICALLY WE HAD TO RAISE 25% OF THEIR OPERATIONAL BUDGET THROUGH FUNDRAISING, WHICH ULTIMATELY ROUGHLY WAS ABOUT 2 TO $250,000 A YEAR. UM DATA THAT THAT WAS NOT A CHALLENGE FOR US BACK IN 2015. WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND WE DID THAT. AND WE DID THAT UNTIL WE COULDN'T DO IT ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THE ENVIRONMENT THAT CHANGED AND THEN IN THE PANDEMIC WHEN WE COULDN'T TAKE ADMISSIONS ANYMORE , IT BECAME FINANCIALLY UNSUSTAINABLE. AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE STOPPED TAKING ADMISSIONS. OKAY OKAY. AND YOU HEARD A LITTLE BIT QUESTIONS IS TO THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CRAWFORD HOUSE, AS OPPOSED TO THE DETOX AND REHABILITATION. SO HE SPEAK A LITTLE BIT JUST GIVEN YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAVING BEEN THE CEO OF CRAWFORD HOUSE FOR SO MANY YEARS AS TO THOSE FIELD OF SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT SINCE 1986. I WOULD THINK I'M WELL VERSED ON THE LICENSING STANDARDS. I COULD SAY THIS FROM A PHYSICAL PLANT REQUIREMENT BETWEEN THE HALFWAY HOUSE AND RESIDENTIAL FACILITY. TO MY KNOWLEDGE. THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES THAT THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SAME FROM PHYSICAL PLANT ON THE PROGRAM SIDE. THE PROGRAM STANDARDS THAT YOU'RE OPERATING A DIFFERENT SERVICES HAS, MR KEMPSON SAID. STAFFING PATTERNS. UM CREDENTIALS OF STAFF, MEANING THE MEDICAL STAFF THE PROGRAM, THE PROGRAM STANDARDS DO VARY. BUT FROM A PHYSICAL STANDPOINT OF PHYSICAL PLANT ENVIRONMENT OF CARE STANDARDS, THEY VIRTUALLY THE SAME. OKAY AND HOW MANY YEARS AGAIN? DID YOU SAY YOU WERE IN THE TREATMENT FIELD SINCE 1986. OKAY. AND IN THAT TIME HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEED FOR FACILITIES LIKE THE CRAWFORD HOUSE AND, LIKE WOODMONT TREATMENT CENTER WITH THEIR OFFERING HERE? HAVE YOU SEEN THAT NEED INCREASE AND ABSOLUTELY AND ESPECIALLY SINCE 2020. WE LOST 110,000 PEOPLE IN 12 MONTHS TO THIS TO THIS DISEASE OF ADDICTION IN THIS IN THIS COUNTRY, 110,000 PEOPLE DIED DIED. NOT COUNTING NONFATAL OVERDOSES, FATAL OVERDOSES OVER A 12 MONTH PERIOD BETWEEN 2020 AND 2021 IN THIS COUNTRY THEY NEED IS ASTRONOMICAL. THANK YOU. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR CURTAIN AT THIS TIME IS TEACH . I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE ORDER IS DETOXING EARLIER STAGE TREATMENT VERSUS THE HALFWAY HOUSE. ARE THE PATIENTS MORE? SEVERE IN THEIR ADDICTION. EXCUSE ME. CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION, PLEASE? I MISSED THE BEGINNING OF IT. THE MICROPHONE DETOX STAND IS IT AN EARLIER STAGE TREATMENT FOR THE PATIENT AND THE HALFWAY HOUSE? SO DO THEY HAVE MORE SEVERE ADDICTION ? IS THAT THE DIFFERENCE? NO THEY DON'T HAVE A MORE SEVERE ADDICTION. THE FACT IS THAT THE TREATMENT FIELD TODAY TO RESEARCH KNOWS THAT MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT. IS IT EVIDENCE BASED PRACTICE? THERE IS RESEARCH THAT CAN BE LOOKED UP THAT FOR PEOPLE TO RECOVER FROM SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS. UH IT'S OPIATE USE DISORDERS AND ALCOHOL USE DISORDERS. UM, MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT IS [01:35:05] THE GOLD STANDARD THE GOLD STANDARD OF CARE AND THAT THAT MEANS THE TAX. THAT MEANS THIS IS A DISEASE OF THE BRAIN, SO THIS MEDICATION WILL HELP. CRAVINGS THIS MEDICATION IT'S PROVEN WILL SAVE LIVES. I WOULD SAY THAT OR THE DRUGS HAVE CHANGED THE COMPLICATIONS. HAVEN'T WE JUST HAVE MORE TOOLS TODAY IN THE SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER TREATMENT WORLD TO KNOW WHAT WORKS. WE HAVE MUCH MORE RESEARCH THAN WE CERTAINLY HADN'T THE SEVENTIES, THE EIGHTIES OR THE NINETIES. SO IN MY ESTIMATION, HIGH FUNCTIONING PEOPLE, HIGH FUNCTIONING PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE THAT DEVELOP AN OPIOID USED TO SORT OUT WHETHER IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAD A PAIN INJURY AND WHAT PRESCRIBED PERCOCET OR OXYCONTIN OR ANY OPIOID. BASED DRUG OR WHETHER IT'S BECAUSE THEY STARTED USING ILLICIT HEROIN IN THE STREET MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT IS NECESSARY FOR ALL THE OTHER ASPECTS TO TAKE. TO TAKE HEED TO TAKE ROOT SO PEOPLE CAN FIND A PATH TO RECOVERY. IN MY EXPERIENCE THE SEVERITY OF THE ADDICTION IS VERY MUCH THE SAME I WOULD SAY SINCE 19 EIGHTIES AND TODAY PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE AND THEY'RE COMPLICATED AND THE REASON THAT PEOPLE BECOME ADDICTED OR A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T PIGEONHOLE INTO ONE SECTION. THE IDEA IS TODAY. WE KNOW WE HAVE EVIDENCE . WE KNOW HOW TO TREAT IT. WE KNOW HOW TO HELP PEOPLE GET ON THE PATH TO RECOVERY MEDICATION IS KEY TO THAT. SOUNDS QUESTIONS . ASK YOUR QUESTION. MAYBE IN A DIFFERENT WAY DID DID DID DAYTOP EVER CONSIDER BECOMING LICENSED AS A DETOX TREATMENT FACILITY? AND IF NOT, WHY NOT? WE DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE RESOURCES BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES AT THE TIME. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT AND YES, WE DID. THAT'S THE BEST ANSWER TO SAY WE DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES THE RESOURCES, MEANING THAT THERE'S MEDICAL EXPERTISE REQUIRED TO RUN A DETOX FACILITY. I'M INTERPRETING YOUR ANSWER. SO THE. THE CRAWFORD HOUSE PROGRAM, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT WAS DATA UPON, WE DID THIS, IT WAS CRAWFORD HOUSE. WE NEVER CHANGED THEIR NAME. BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, THE SUPPORT FROM THE LOCAL COMMUNITY THE, UM, THAT. REPEAT THE QUESTION ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE. SO I MAKE SURE I'M ANSWERING IT . ONE THING THAT I'M CONSIDERING IS THE LICENSE WHAT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE LICENSING REQUIREMENT DIFFERENCES ARE. SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TOP THE TROPHIC HOUSE DID NOT UM, SEEK TO BECOME A DETOX TREATMENT. IN THE SAME IN THE SAME STRUCTURE AS THIS APPLICATION IS APPLYING FOR WE AT THAT POINT IN TIME WE TRADED INDIGENT HOMELESS WOMEN THAT WERE TYPICALLY HAD MEDICAID AS THEIR INSURANCE. ALTHOUGH MEDICAID DIDN'T COVER THAT LEVEL OF CARE WE WERE DEPENDENT ON STATE FUNDING THE STATE IT WENT FROM AT $1.68 A DAY BUT I CAN TELL YOU IN 2021 WHEN WE COULD NO LONGER TAKE ADMISSIONS. WE WERE GETTING $85 A DAY FROM THE STATE TO PROVIDE SERVICES FOR WOMEN. OUR COST CONSERVATIVELY WAS 100 AND $20 A DAY. WE DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES AND WHEN WE COULDN'T FUNDRAISE ANYMORE WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT IT WAS ABOUT JUST TRYING TRYING TO KEEP THE FACILITY TOGETHER. SO THIS WAS A RESOURCE ISSUE. QUESTION, SIR. THE OPIOID REPLACEMENT DRUGS THAT YOU WERE USING TO TREAT THESE, UH THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING FROM OPIOID DISEASE WHERE THOSE DRUGS KEPT ON SITE BY YOU OR THEY WERE. THEY WERE PROVIDED, UH, AS AN OUTPATIENT FROM OUTSIDE. IF YES, IF YES, IF THE IF A WOMAN NEEDED VIVITROL WE WOULD HAVE TO TRANSPORT HER TO OUR HUNTER TO NOW PATIENTS SERVICES AND PROVIDE THE VIVITROL SHOTS ONCE A MONTH OR DOCTORS WHO WORKED FOR OUR OUTPATIENT SERVICES ALSO PRESCRIBED THE SUBOXONE OWN. TWO WOMEN. HMM. BUT. IN THAT LEVEL OF CARE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, THE WOMAN HAD TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SAFEGUARDING HER OWN MEDICATION. BECAUSE THERE WERE NO NURSING. THEY WERE IN A HALFWAY HOUSE LEVEL OF CARE THERE. FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S NO FUNDING. THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR ANY MEDICAL STAFF, ANY NURSING STAFF, SO WE DID NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CONTROL WHAT TO [01:40:01] PURSUE OR TO ADMINISTER MEDICATION. THAT'S WHY MR KENT KIMPSON SAID THAT IF A WOMAN WAS PRESCRIBED ANY KIND OF MEDICATION, THEN THE LEGAL TERM FOR THAT WAS THE SELF ADMINISTRATION OF MEDICATION. OUR STEP WOULD OVERSEE THAT. AND ONE CHANGE. AND THIS IS A QUESTION FOR YOU, SIR. ONE CHAIN THAT WOULD PREVAIL ONCE YOU MAKE THIS, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY CHANGED FROM THE BUSINESS MODEL THAT YOU WERE RUNNING IN CRAWFORD WORDS. WHAT YOU PLAN TO RUN IS THESE MEDICATIONS THESE DRUGS WILL BE ON SITE. UNDER THE CARE. I UNDERSTAND IT WILL BE UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE RN OR WHOEVER, BUT IT WILL BE ON SITE. CORRECT THE MEDICATION WILL BE ON SITE AND AN RN WILL BE GIVING THEM THEIR MEDICATION. OKAY PRETTY SURE THERE WAS MEDICATION ON SIDE OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE AS WELL. YES SORRY. THERE WAS MEDICATION. THE WOMEN IF THEY NEEDED MEDICATION OF THE DOCTOR PRESCRIBED THE MEDICATION. YES THERE WAS. THEY HAD MEDICATION. THEY HAD THE MEDICATION THEY NEED EXCEPT WE WERE NOT PERMITTED TO, UH, THIS NOT DISPENSE WERE NOT PERMITTED TO ADMINISTER THE MEDICATION. THE WAY AN RN CAN ADMINISTER MEDICATION. IT WAS LITERALLY THE WOMAN WOULD HAVE THE MEDICATION HAVE TO TAKE HER OWN PILL OUT. OF THE VIAL OF WHAT WAS PRESCRIBED PRESCRIPTION AND THE STEP WOULD SUPERVISE THAT AND THEN MAKE AN INITIAL THAT IT WAS DONE IN WHAT WE CALL THE MEDICATION LOG. IT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT OPERATIONS AND AGAIN, THAT'S JUST IN THE UNDER THE TREATMENT RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT PROVIDER THE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES HERE AS A HALFWAY HOUSE, PROVIDING IT THEMSELVES WOMEN, AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BECAUSE WE'RE FOCUSED ON THE OPERATION. YOU'RE THE CRAWFORD HOUSES OPERATIONS RIGHT NOW, YOU YOU MENTIONED THAT UNDER PHASE ONE OF THEIR YOU KNOW, TIME THERE APPROXIMATELY 30 DAYS THAT, UH, THE DOCUMENTS WERE RESTRICTED FROM LEAVING THE PROPERTY. UH UNLESS THEY WENT TO SPECIFIC A OR N A TREATMENT. UM HOW OFTEN DURING YOUR PERIOD OF TIME SINCE 2014 UNTIL I CLOSED DID THEY ARE. THE OCCUPANTS REFUSED OR TRY TO TRY TO LEAVE. OR, UM YOU KNOW? NOT WANT TO BE THERE AND BECOME THE COMBATIVE. WHAT WAS THE FREQUENCY OF THAT UNDER YOUR. IT HAPPENED. PEOPLE LEFT AGAINST PROGRAM ADVICE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF DATA DRIVEN NUMBER. I CAN'T GIVE YOU THAT. REALLY BUT I MEAN, IT HAPPENED, PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO BE IN TREATMENT. CAN I JUST SAY WHAT HAPPENS? I MEAN, THEY COULD JUST WALK OUT THEN THEIR TREATMENT ENDS. IS THERE WHAT WAS THE PROTOCOL? JUST TWO ADULT . THERE WERE INDIVIDUALS THERE. WOMEN THERE WHO WERE THEY'RE PART OF A DRUG COURT PROGRAM OR A COURT APPOINTED PROGRAM AS WELL. I MEAN, THERE WERE WOMEN THERE THAT WEREN'T THERE ON THEIR OWN ACCORD, CORRECT AND I MAJORITY OF THE WOMEN WHO WERE REFERRED TO US, WHERE THERE AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO INCARCERATION , OKAY, THAT WAS NOT WHAT WE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION OF THAT. SO THEY WERE RESTRICTED TO THE HOUSE. WHAT DID THAT MEAN? IT WAS LOCKED AND THEY COULDN'T LEAVE. IS THAT CRAWFORD HOUSE? JUST WHAT I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CRAWFORD. I'M SORRY, HE SAID. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. SO THE WOMEN WERE LOCKED IN THE HOUSE. BASICALLY THEY COULD NOT LEAVE AND IF THEY WANTED TO LEAVE, THEY WOULD BASICALLY HAVE TO BE ABDICATING THEIR CARE. THEY WERE NEVER LOCKED IN THE HOUSE. OKAY THEY WERE NOT LOCKED IN THAT THEY WERE NEVER LOCKED IN THE HOUSE EVERYTHING IF A WOMAN WANTED TO LEAVE TREATMENT AGAINST THE STAFF'S ADVICE, WE FELT THERE WOULD BE IN DANGER LITERALLY. WE WOULD COUNSEL THEM WE WOULD CALL THEM IF WE HAD TO SPEAK TO A PROBATION OFFICER. BUT IN THE END, THEY WERE FREE TO LEAVE AND THEN HAD TO WERE FREE TO LEAVE. BUT THEY LEFT. THEY'RE GONNA PROBABLY BE VIOLATING THEIR DRUG COURT SENTENCE, AND SO THEY WIND UP IN A LOCKED UP SOMEWHERE, BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING CORRECT IF THEY WANTED TO, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAT I HEARD EARLIER, MR DRILL ASKED THE CURRENT APPLICANT WOULD BE THEY WOULD THEY CAN'T LEAVE THE HOUSE. THAT WOULD BE PHYSICALLY THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LEAVE. IS IT ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES AND MR KEMPSON? YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT SO FORTH. WOODMONT WHAT'S THE WHAT IS THE ABILITY OF THE PARTICIPANTS TO LEAVE? CAN THEY COME AND GO AS THEY PLEASE? TREATMENT MICROPHONE, PLEASE MICROPHONE? NO THEY CANNOT LEAVE ONCE THEY'RE THERE FOR TREATMENT. THEY'RE THERE FOR TREATMENT. SO THE TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL DETOX PROCESS IS 5 TO 7 DAYS AND FOR THE RESIDENTIAL SHORT TERM INPATIENT PORTION IS 14 TO 21 DAYS. IN TOTAL. IT'S ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 30 DAYS ON SITE. NOW WE ARE A PRIVATE INSURANCE FACILITIES. SO THESE ARE WORKING CLASS PROFESSIONALS, DOCTORS, LAWYERS, ACCOUNTANTS. PEOPLE IN CORPORATE AMERICA. WE DO NOT TAKE MEDICAID OR WE DON'T SERVICE TO INDIGENT POPULATION. WHEN YOU SAY THEY'RE PROFESSIONALS, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN INCOME LEVEL TO AFFORD TO GO. IT'S NOT THAT THEY HAVE TO BE LAWYERS OR DOCTORS. CORRECT BUT FROM MY EXPERIENCE AT MY OTHER, THE OTHER FACILITY ON THESE ARE TYPICALLY WORKING CLASS PROFESSIONALS. LOOKING AT THAT SAME. A PERIOD OF INCARCERATION [01:45:08] IF THEY DON'T GO THROUGH WITH THIS TREATMENT THAT THEY'RE THERE, BECAUSE THEY HAD MADE A DETERMINATION IN THEIR LIFE TO GO TO YOUR FACILITY AND TO RECEIVE THIS TREATMENT, THEY'RE THERE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE THERE. SO IS IT ALL? I'M SORRY. YOU MEAN THEY DON'T LEAVE? I MEAN, USUALLY HOSPITALS, YOU CAN SIGN YOURSELF EVEN IF YOU'RE THERE FOR, UM, UH, PSYCHIATRIC ISSUES. YOU CAN SIGN YOURSELF OUT SO HOW WHAT PREVENTS THEM FROM LEAVING YOUR FACILITY OR PROPOSED FACILITY. THE PEOPLE THERE OR THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN ACCORD. THEY WANT TO HELP FOR LIKE A PSYCHIATRIC UNIT. PEOPLE ARE GETTING SENT THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE IN A PSYCHIATRIC EMERGENCY EPISODE, SO THEY'RE NOT IN THE RIGHT STATE OF MIND OR THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. PEOPLE WERE THERE IN LIEU OF JAIL SENTENCES OR COURT. THESE PEOPLE ARE CALLING US ON THEIR OWN ACCORD, AND THEY WANT THE TREATMENT. JUST BEGINNING YOU CLEAR. YOU TESTIFIED THAT THEY CANNOT LEAVE THEY CAN LEAVE IF THEY WANT TO THEIR NOT PERMITTED WHILE THEY'RE IN OUR TREATMENT PROGRAM TO LEAVE THE FACILITY. THEY CAN WALK OUT THE DOOR. BUT THAT'S NOT PART OF THE END OF THE TREATMENT. BASICALLY WHEN THEY WALK OUT THE DOOR, THAT'S THE END OF THE PROGRAM HAPPENS IF THEY DO MONITOR IF SOMEONE WALKS OUT THE DOOR IS THAT THE END OF THE TREATMENT PROGRAM FOR THEM. ARE THEY GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE? WHEN YOU SAY WALK OUT THE DOOR? DO YOU MEAN OUTFRONT OR OFFSITE? THEY'RE GOING THROUGH. LET'S SAY THEY'RE GOING THROUGH DETOX. THERE. THERE. THEY DECIDE THIS IS TOO DIFFICULT THERE OUT OF THERE, SO THEY JUST LEAVE THEY YOU STATED BEFORE. THAT THEY WERE CONFINED TO THE BUILDING. I ASKED YOU COULD THEY WALK OUTSIDE THE BUILDING? AND YOU SAID, NO. THEY HAVE TO STAY INSIDE THE BUILDING. SO IF SOMEONE WALKS OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, AND YOU SAID THEY HAD TO STAY IN THE BUILDING WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON? TYPICALLY THERE WOULD BE A CLINICAL INTERVENTION AT THAT POINT, UM, BUT IN MY OWN WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WE A LOT OF TIMES IF SAY SOMEONE WANTED TO LEAVE THE FACILITY. WE WOULD DO AN INTERVENTION WITH THEIR THERAPIST. WE'D SIT WITH THEM TALK THROUGH THE RATIONALIZATION OF WHY THEY'RE LOOKING TO LEAVE THE TREATMENT PROGRAM. UM CALL THEIR EMERGENCY CONTACTS ARE TYPICALLY A FAMILY MEMBER TO TALK TO THEM AND SEE IF WE CAN CALM THEM DOWN DURING THE PROCESS SO THERE MIGHT BE OUTSIDE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THEY WANT TO LEAVE THE PROGRAM FOR BUT WHAT IF THEY DON'T TELL YOU? WHAT IF THEY JUST GET UP, YOU KNOW, THEY FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET OUT. THEY WALKED DOWN THE ROAD AND THEY'RE THEY'RE OUT OF THERE. AND THEN THEY FIGURE OUT HOW TO HOW TO GET IN TOUCH WITH SOMEBODY. HOW LIKE WHAT HAPPENS ? ARE THEY OUT OF THE PROGRAM? CORRECT. THAT'S THE ONLY THAT'S THEIR OWN. THE ONLY, UM, SANCTION IS THAT THEY COULD NEVER COME BACK TO YOUR PARTICULAR PROGRAM. NOT THEY CAN'T COME BACK IMMEDIATELY SAY A YEAR DOWN THE ROAD. IF THE PERSON WAS LIKE, HEY, I WANT TO TRY TREATMENT AGAIN OR EVEN SIX MONTHS, MAYBE THREE MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD THERE IN A DIFFERENT MINDSET, AND THEY'RE LIKE, HEY, I REALLY WASN'T THINKING STRAIGHT. AND I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE FACILITY, THEY WOULD MORE THAN WELCOME TO THE COMEBACK. I THINK THE QUESTION THAT'S BEING ASKED HERE IS ALSO FROM MONITORING STANDPOINT. I MEAN, I THINK YOU SAID, WE CANNOT HEAR MONITORING STANDPOINT OF THE INDIVIDUALS THERE. SO CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT? HOW WOODMONT WOULD WOULD KEEP TRACK OF THE PEOPLE THERE? SO SITUATION LIKE WAS JUST SAID, IS SOMEONE WALKING OUT THE DOOR CAN'T HAPPEN, SO WE EMPLOYED BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TECHNICIANS. THEIR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY IS TO MONITOR THE PATIENTS 24 7 TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL THE PATIENTS. SO ON SITE. THESE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TEXT WILL BE WATCHING THE PATIENTS. THERE ALSO WILL BE CAMERAS IN ALL THE COMMON AREAS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE FACILITY THAT WILL BE MONITORED 24 7 AS WELL. AND WE'RE WHERE IS THE PERSON SITTING? THAT'S MONITORING THAT IN THE FACILITY OR SOMEWHERE ELSE, THE CAMERAS THEM SECURITY CAMERAS. PRESUMABLY THERE'S A SCREEN SOMEWHERE, SHOWING THE PICTURE OF WHAT THE CAMERA'S SEEING. WHERE WHO IS WATCHING THE SCREENS? AND WHERE IS THAT PERSON STATIONED TYPICALLY TO BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TEXT ON IT ANY GIVEN TIME? ONE IS MONITORING THE CAMERAS. THE OTHER IS WALKING AROUND THE FACILITY TO KEEP TRACK OF THE PATIENTS. JUST GO OFF IF THEY TRY TO LEAVE, OR YOU KNOW WERE WE MAY BE JUMPING THE GUN IN TERMS OF UM, IS THERE ALARM SYSTEMS OR YOU'RE JUST HAVING A CAMERA THINK THERE'S AN ALARM SYSTEM ON SITE? WE'RE NOT . WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY ALARM SYSTEM AGAIN. WE'RE JUST MONITORING THESE PEOPLE. IS THIS A FREQUENT PROBLEM OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE DETERMINED THAT DECIDED TO GO INTO THESE FACILITIES OUT OF THE BLUE? WALKING OUT THE FRONT DOOR IS NOT SO THERE'S NO THERE'S NO TELLING THIS PERSON HEY, YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE FACILITY. LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN ACCORD. SO IF THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THERE TYPICALLY THEY TELL THE STAFF MEMBER HEY, I DON'T THINK THIS IS RIGHT FOR ME. I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE ANYMORE. CAN I HAVE MY BELONGINGS? CAN I GET TRANSPORTED BACK HOME? OKAY BUT YOU SAID THAT, UM, WHEN WE ASKED [01:50:04] ABOUT IF THEY COULD BE OUT ON THE PREMISES, YOU SAID NO. THEY WOULD BE STAYING IN THE BUILDING . SO UM, THEY DON'T GO FOR WALKS OUTSIDE OR ANYTHING. THEY CANNOT ROAM THE PROPERTY FREELY. THE ONLY TIME THEY WOULD GO OUTSIDE IS FOR SMOKE BREAKS, WHICH THE CRAWFORD HOUSE HAD TO DESIGNATE SMOKE AREA. WE WOULD THINK TO INCLUDE THE SAME SMOKING AREA AS WELL ON SITE. I THINK THE QUESTION AND CONCERN THAT THE BOARD HAS IS. HOW DO YOU ENFORCE ALL OF THAT? I MEAN ONE. IT'S VOLUNTARY. UNLIKE CRAWFORD HOUSE , WHERE VERY OFTEN IT WAS COURT ORDERED HERE IS VOLUNTARY, AND YOU DON'T SEEM TO HAVE SECURITY FOR YOU HAVE THIS BEHAVIOR HEALTH TECHNICIANS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT YOU HAVE A VERY STRONG SECURITY SYSTEM, INCLUDING PERSONNEL. WHO WILL BE IN FORCING THAT PROCESS. THESE PEOPLE ARGUABLY MAY CHOOSE TO GO OUT FOR A SMOKE BREAK, WHICH IS A LITTLE LONGER THAN A SMOKE BREAK AND COULD BE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IF YOU CAN ANSWER JUST THE FIRST PART OF THE SMOKE BREAK, THERE'LL BE SUPERVISED DURING THAT CORRECT CORRECT. THE SMOKE BREAKS WILL BE SUPERVISED AT ALL TIMES. I WOULD SAY OUR FACILITY HAS MORE SECURITY MEASURES IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAVE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TEXT ON SITE MONITORING THESE PATIENTS AT ALL TIMES MORE THAN CRAWFORD HOUSE DID. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS THE STEP THREE AT THE END AND YOUR FACILITY IS STEP ONE DETOX IN THE BEGINNING. THAT'S WHY THE BOARD IS ASKING THESE QUESTIONS THAT MAKES SENSE. I UNDERSTAND THAT, ACTUALLY, I'D LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT POINT JUST TOO SO I UNDERSTAND THE KIND OF MODERN WAY TO TREAT OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE . IS IT TRULY A PROGRESSION LIKE THAT? LIKE I DON'T THINK YOU MENTIONED SARAH THAT THE COURT WOULD WOULD ORDER THE DOCUMENTS THE WOMEN TO THE HOUSE DIRECTLY . THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH ANY DETAIL. DETOX STAGE ONE. THEY JUST WENT TO YOUR HOUSE DIRECTLY. IS THAT CORRECT? TWO QUESTIONS. IT VARIES. SOME OF THE WOMEN THAT WERE REFERRED TO US DID GO THROUGH A DETOX PRIOR TO AND SOME DIDN'T IT WOULD REALLY DEPEND ON THE ACCESS THEY HAD TO THE CARE THEY NEEDED PRIOR TO US, AND IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE DIAGNOSIS. SO SOME WOMEN DID. WE ACTUALLY HAD. I CAN RECALL ON SEVERAL CASES, REFERRALS FROM FROM DETOX IS TO THE HALFWAY HOUSE. KEEP ON GOING, IF YOU FOR YOUR BREAK, JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE NO MORE QUESTIONS FOR MR KERN. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS SO AND OBVIOUSLY HE WILL BE HERE TO QUESTION ARISES AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND HE NEEDS TO COME BACK. THE STAFFING NEEDS AND YES , WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE. SO, UM, I'D LIKE TO HAVE THE TOWNSHIP PLANNER ASKED QUESTIONS . I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR MR CURTIN. WHEN YOU SAY TREATMENT IN THE CONTEXT OF CRAWFORD HOUSE. WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING TO? WHAT DID WHAT DOES TREATMENT CONSISTS OF IN THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WORLD? INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING GROUP COUNSELING, DIDACTIC EDUCATION, CAREER PLANNING, MONEY MANAGEMENT, VOCATIONAL REFERRAL. UM TYPICALLY INDIVIDUAL AND GROUP COUNSELING OR THE MAIN FORMS OF CLINICAL TREATMENT. AND THEN THERE WOULD BE WHEN AVAILABLE FAMILY SESSIONS OR CHILD VISITS . WE SAW THAT AS A VERY CLINICAL SERVICE. TO SO IF I UNDERSTAND THAT ESSENTIALLY TREATMENT MEANS ADVICE AND COUNSELING IN SEVERAL SCALES BASICALLY DIFFERENCE BY LIFE, YES, BUT BY PROFESSIONALS LICENSED OR CERTIFIED, COUNSELOR. THANKS. SO I HAVE I HAVE A QUESTION. SO REGARDING THE USE VARIANT, UH, ARE YOU PROPOSING, SUGGESTING THAT. I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO DIRECT QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT. AT MR CURTAIN ONLY. AND BECAUSE THE OTHER WITNESS HASN'T EVEN FINISHED HIS TESTIMONY. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH AND I'D ACTUALLY LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT IF YOU'RE FINISHED WITH YOUR DIRECT OF MR CURTIN, THEN I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN THE SESSION TO PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT PUBLIC QUESTIONS. YES, MR CURTIN ONLY GONNA SPECIFY THAT ALL ALL OF THE ALL THE QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC AT THIS POINT WILL BE DIRECTED ONLY TO MR CURTIN. THERE IS NO OTHER QUESTIONS. WE WILL NOT ALLOW ANY QUESTIONS TO THE APPLICANT THEMSELVES OR THE LAWYER OR THE OR THE BOARD AT THIS TIME. THIS IS ONLY CLARIFY OR TO AMPLIFY THE TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN BY MR KIRK. AND THE REASON BEING IS BECAUSE THE OTHER WITNESS HASN'T COMPLETED HIS TESTIMONY AND THE BOARD ASKED SUGGESTED. THAT THE [01:55:02] INFORMATION THEY WERE TRYING TO SOLICIT FROM MR. KEMPSON WAS BETTER PUT. TO A PERSON WITH PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE. WHO WAS MR CURTIN? RIGHT? SO. I'M LIKE. YES, MA'AM. YES PLEASE. YEAH. YEAH SO THE PROCESSOR? I DON'T KNOW. MOST PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN HERE. BUT YOU DO HAVE TO STATE YOUR NAME. UM YOUR ADDRESS. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY AFFILIATION WITH ANY PARTY OF INTEREST HERE, PLEASE. MY NAME IS CANDY. WILLIS KNICKERBOCKER. DR BELL MADE NEW JERSEY. I'VE LIVED IN TOWN ABOUT 40 YEARS AND WE HAVE TO GO SLOW AND YOU HAVE TO TALK LOUDER. TOO SOFT AND YOU'RE TALKING TOO FAST. OKAY? HOW'S THAT? SO UM, IS CANDY CANDY WILLIS KNICKERBOCKER. DR SHERRY NOTICED ME. I'M SURE SHE HAS IT DOWN. OKAY, UM SO, MR CURTIN, I HAPPEN TO START VOLUNTEERING AT CRAWFORD HOUSE RIGHT AROUND 2013 . WHEN LINDA LAHANE WAS STILL THE DIRECTOR THERE. UM I TAUGHT COMPUTER CLASSES. WE MADE DINNERS FOR THE WOMEN AND EIGHT DINNERS WITH THEM, UM, THE BLOUIN BERG CHURCH DID GARDENING WITH THE WOMEN. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING WHEN I SIGNED UP THAT, UM. THE WOMEN HAD TO BE 30 DAYS CLEAN BEFORE THEY GOT TO CRAWFORD HOUSE. THAT'S WHAT QUESTION DID THE WOMEN HAVE TO BE 30 DAYS CLEAN BEFORE THEY GOT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE? WE ASKED FOR. I CAN SAY THIS. WE ASKED FOR 14 DAYS THAT WHEN I DON'T KNOW THE WORD CLAIMED I DON'T YOU KNOW, WE CLEAN OKAY. WHAT WAS THE REQUIREMENT FOR ANY WOMEN COMING TO CRAWFORD HOUSE? THEY WOULD HAVE NOT USED ILLICIT SUBSTANCES. 14 DAYS PRIOR TO ADMISSION. I CAN TELL YOU THIS WITH THE WAY THE FIELD CHANGED AND THE AND JUST THE DEVASTATION , WE OFTEN MADE EXCEPTIONS FOR THAT. I JUST SAID SOME WE WOULD TAKE PEOPLE FROM DETOX. IF NEEDED. IF THE REFERRAL WAS THERE OFTEN THAT WE'RE NOT IN DETOX FOR 14 DAYS, THE GENERAL RULE WAS 14 DAYS WITHOUT USING DRUGS. AND THERE WERE EXCEPTIONS . THANK YOU. THE REASON I BRING THAT UP IS BECAUSE I WANT TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED IN MY HOLD ON. SEE IF YOU DISPUTE WHAT HE SAYS THEN THE TIME FOR YOU TO DO THAT. THAT'S AFTER RIGHT AFTER THE APPLICANT FINISHES THE WITNESSES THAN ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC AND TESTIFY, SO TAKE NOTES ON WHAT HE SAYS. AND THEN IF YOU SAY THAT HE'S HE'S WRONG OR YOU WERE GIVEN OTHER INFORMATION. THEN YOU TELL THE BOARD NOW, NOW IS NOT THE TIME NOW. I CAN JUST ASK A QUESTION HIS QUESTIONS ONLY. SO NOW, UM OKAY, UM. WELL I GUESS I HAVE A LOT OF COMMENTS AFTERWARDS. BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE TRANSPORTATION THAT THE WOMEN GOT. YOU SAID THAT YOU ALWAYS TRANSPORTED THEM. TO THE PLACES THAT THEY WORKED. WAS THAT ALWAYS THE CASE. WE HAD WE HAD A VAN, YOU KNOW? WAS IT ALWAYS THE CASE? LISTEN, LISTEN, THIS IS WHAT SHE'S ASKING. YOU WERE THERE ANY OCCASIONS THAT THE WOMEN GOT FROM CRAWFORD HOUSE TO SOMEWHERE ELSE NOT TRANSPORTED IN A CRAWFORD HOUSE VAN. YES OR NO. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN VOLUNTEERS THAT DID SOME TRANSPORTATION. IF I RECALL THERE COULD HAVE BEEN. THAT CERTAINLY WASN'T THE NORM. BUT POTENTIALLY THERE COULD HAVE BEEN I GUESS I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IT IS LATER, OK, OK? YEAH. HMM. HELLO ROGER STRAYER STR YOU ARE 10 ACORN DRIVE. AND I THINK I HEARD THE ANSWER TO THIS AND I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS, BUT THE ONE SPECIFIC QUESTION RIGHT NOW IS HOW OFTEN DID CRAWFORD HOUSE PERFORM MEDICALLY SUPERVISED SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER WITHDRAWAL? HOW OFTEN DID THEY PERFORM ALCOHOL, OPIATE BENZODIAZEPINE OR OTHER DRUG WITHDRAWAL? NOT PEOPLE WHO RECEIVED DETOXIFICATION AND CAME TO CRAWFORD HOUSE. PEOPLE WHO REQUIRED THE EXPERTISE OF CRAWFORD HOUSE TO DO THE ACTUAL ON SITE DETOXIFICATION. DID THAT EVER OCCUR? WE WERE NOT A DETOX . SO NOW WE WANT THAT LICENSE TO PROVIDE DETOXIFICATION SERVICES THAT THAT NEVER HAPPENED. OKAY DOES THAT IMPLY THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN LICENSOR FOR PERFORMING DETOX AS COMPARED TO WHAT YOU PROVIDED BECAUSE WE HEARD EARLIER THAT THERE WASN'T A DIFFERENCE. NO NO, I HEARD THERE WAS THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE . OKAY I'M SORRY, BUT IT WAS NO [02:00:03] DETOXIFICATION ON SITE. JUST JUST TO CLARIFY. I BELIEVE I'M GOING TO ASK YOU SOME TERMS OF THE QUESTION THERE ISN'T THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE IN REQUIREMENTS FOR A LICENSE FOR THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS OF THE FACILITY. BUT THERE WERE DIFFERENCES FOR PROGRAMMING AND STAFFING. IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE PLAN TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE WITH VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL THE PROGRAM WOULD DIFFERENT PROGRAM. THERE'S DIFFERENT PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS IN DIFFERENT STAFFING REQUIREMENT IS WHAT YOU TESTIFY TO BEFORE. I PRESUME WE'RE GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THOSE AGAIN RIGHT NOW. WE'RE JUST WE'RE HEARING FROM THIS WITNESS. TO ESTABLISH WHAT EXACTLY TOOK PLACE AT CRAWFORD HOUSE AND THEN THE ATTORNEY IS GOING TO GO BACK TO HIS WITNESS TO DESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENS AT THIS PROPOSED FACILITY. MY ONLY POINT MORE QUESTION WAS NO DETOXIFICATION. GREAT. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING TEST. KLEIN FROM 40 FIELDCREST AVENUE. WE LIVED DIRECTLY BEHIND CRAWFORD HOUSE AND ACTUALLY CAN SEE IT THE WHOLE BUILDING FROM OUR HOUSE. UNLIKE THE PICTURE THAT'S IN HERE. SO MY QUESTION, SIR. IS I'M NOT. I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND. DID WAS THERE ANY STAFF MEMBER THAT PROVIDED THE MEDICATION TO DETOX INDIVIDUALS AT CRAWFORD HOUSE? OR WERE THEY BEYOND WORTHY PATIENTS BEYOND THAT, AND THEY WERE ONLY ABLE, THEY WERE ABLE TO SELF MEDICATE. WE DID NOT PROVIDE DETOXIFICATION SERVICES AT CRAWFORD HOUSE WE WERE NOT LICENSED TO DO SO. WERE THERE ANY LOCKED FACILITIES TO KEEP THE MEDICATIONS AND CRAWFORD HOUSE? THERE ARE THERE WERE LOCKED BOXES THAT THE WOMEN HAD ACCESS TO THE PATIENTS THEMSELVES OR THE INDIVIDUALS LIVING THERE DID THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO OPEN THOSE BOXES THEMSELVES? OR WAS THERE MEDICAL PERSONNEL THAT WAS OPENING THEM? HE HAD NO MEDICAL PERSONNEL ON STAFF. WE HAVE THEM WE HAD A MEDICAL LIAISON THAT WOULD OPEN THEM, BUT THAT WOULD VARY. QUICK CLARIFICATION. EACH WOMAN WOULD HAVE ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO HER OWN LOCKBOX FOR MEDICATION, OR THAT ALL THE WOMEN HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE LOCKS BOX LOCKBOXES. NO NO, NO. NOBODY HAD ACCESS TO ANYBODY ELSE'S MEDICATION. SO THERE WAS NO SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU, THERE WAS NO PERSONNEL. NO. PHYSICIAN KNOWN NURSING STAFF THAT WOULD DECIDE WHAT MEDICATIONS FOR NEEDED OR HOW OFTEN CORRECT THAT IS CORRECT AND. IF I ALSO UNDERSTAND THIS THERAPY THAT YOU WERE PROVIDING AT CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS THAT BASICALLY COUNSELING OR WAS IT EVER. THAT SOMEBODY NEEDED PHYSICAL TREATMENT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT PHYSICAL TREATMENT MADE. PROBABLY THAT WAS THAT WAS POORLY FREEZE, BUT THE BUT THE TREATMENT THAT YOU WERE PROVIDING AT CRAWFORD HOUSE THAT WAS JUST COUNSELING CORRECT. YES WOMAN NEEDED MEDICATION MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT FOR AN OPIOID USE DISORDER. WE WOULD EITHER PROVIDE THAT THERE AND OUTPATIENT PROGRAM THAT WE THAT WE OFFERED THAT WE OPERATE IN 100 AND COUNTY IN FLEMINGTON . WHAT DO THAT EVERY BARREL WOMEN RECEIVING TREATMENT AND CRAWFORD HOUSE WERE ON MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT. UM NAMELY SUBOXONE AND OR VIVITROL FOR THEIR OPIOID USE DISORDER. IT WAS NOT USED AS DETOX, VACATION MEDICINE. SO ANY OF THE TREATMENT THAT ANY OF THE TREATMENT THAT THE PATIENT NEEDED TO GET SUBOXONE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THERE WOULD BE TRANSPORTED OUT OF CRAWFORD HOUSE TO A FACILITY WHERE A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL COULD PROVIDE IT TO THEM. THAT'S THE CORRECT STATEMENT. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. JAMES JEFFERS, J E F F. E. R S 43 FIELDCREST AVENUE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM, UH A NEIGHBOR THERE, UM. JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE FACILITY. HOW DID THE YOU SAID THAT WOMEN WERE OFTEN INSIDE? AND A LOT OF THE WOMEN WERE THERE TO THE THREAT OF INCARCERATION. YOU KNOW, FROM HERE YOUR QUESTIONS WHEN YOU GUYS ASK QUESTIONS, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE LOOKING AT HIM. CAN YOU TALK INTO THE MIKE? YES, I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. I JUST WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE PHYSICAL RESTRICTIONS AT THE FACILITY. THE SECURITY UM THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT HOW A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WERE INDIGENT. THEY'RE COMING. THEY'RE UNDER THREAT OF GOING TO JAIL. SO. [02:05:03] WERE THEY ALLOWED TO FREELY LEAVE THE FACILITY OR WERE THEY SUPPOSED TO STAY INSIDE? I THINK YOU SAID BEFORE THAT THEY WERE RESTRICTED TO ENDURES. EXCEPT WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THEM OFF CAMPUS TO ACCEPT WHEN THEY WERE GOING FOR SMOKE BREAKS, WHICH HE SAID THEY WERE SUPER OUTSIDE OF THE SMOKE BREAKS AND THINGS THAT'S THAT'S ALL RIGHT, SO I NEVER SAID THAT WOMEN WERE RESTRICTED TO INDOORS. THAT'S MY BAD AGAIN, PLEASE. AND I APOLOGIZE. I'M ASKING YOU ABOUT WHAT WERE THE RESTRICTIONS ON WOMEN COMING AND GOING AT THE FACILITY. VERY FEW. AND THAT WAS THE NATURE AND THE INTENT OF THE PROGRAM BEING A HALFWAY HOUSE LEVEL OF CARE IN THE 1ST 30 DAYS, WE DID REQUIRE THAT THE WOMEN NOT GO OUT TO WORK, BASICALLY THAT THAT WAS AN INDUCTION PERIOD IF YOU WILL IN THE 1ST 30 DAYS, BUT THEY WERE FREE TO WALK ON THE PROPERTY. THIS IS A HALFWAY HOUSE LEVEL OF CARE. IT'S THE LAST STEP BEFORE SOMEBODY MOVES OUT. 22 IN THE LET ME MAYBE THIS CAN HELP IN THE LICENSURE STANDARDS. BY THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, THE HALFWAY HOUSE IS THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE LEVEL OF CARE IN A RESIDENTIAL PROGRAM. RESIDENTIAL PROGRAM. IT'S THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE LEVEL OF CARE THAT WERE THERE WERE VERY FEW RESTRICTIONS. THAT'S NOT THE WAY HALFWAY HOUSES IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE RESTRICTING PEOPLE. THERE'S THESE WOMEN ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AT THEIR END OF THEIR TREATMENT, READY TO MOVE ABOUT INDEPENDENTLY EXTREMELY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED NOW FROM A DETOX INITIAL STANDPOINT, WHEN PEOPLE ARE STILL AS YOU MIGHT SAY, TWEAKING OR HAVING LOTS OF CRAVINGS. THIS IS THIS IS MUCH FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD CORRECT. WELL, NO, NOT NECESSARILY. BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE ADDICTION. TODAY WE KNOW THAT THE SOONER YOU CAN GIVE PEOPLE ACCESS TO MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT FOR THEIR OPIOID USE DISORDER, THE BETTER LIKELIHOOD THEY HAVE A POSITIVE OUTCOME. I DON'T THINK THAT ANSWERS THAT QUESTION ALIVE. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME COMING OFF OF A DRUG FOR A DAY BETWEEN OR 45 DAYS LATER, RIGHT? YOU'RE FURTHER IN YOUR RECOVERY JOURNEY. SO THEN YOU'RE GOING TO TRANSITION TO THIS HALFWAY HOUSE. RIGHT SO THERE IS CERTAINLY A DIFFERENCE. I THINK MR WOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION EARLIER, AND IT WAS KIND OF BUT IT WASN'T REALLY ANSWERED. BUT THERE IS CERTAINLY A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN YOU'RE INITIALLY COMING OFF OF A WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT. YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT A QUESTION. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE? THAT'S THE QUESTION. UH YEAH. THIS PERSON. YEAH. WELL YEAH, ORIGINALLY CORRECT, BUT THEN YOU ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD SINCE 1986 AND YOU ASK THEM TO COMPARE THIS AND THAT, SO I THINK TO THE BOARD THAT THIS IS A LEGITIMATE CROSS EXAMINATION QUESTION. THAT'S RIGHT. HE'S NOT ASKING A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND YOUR PROPOSED USE. HE'S ASKING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRAWFORD HOUSE IN A DETOX PROGRAM. AND APPARENTLY, ACCORDING TO THIS WITNESS, HE HAS KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE HE'S BEEN IN THE FIELD SINCE 1986 LIKE YOU ASKED HIM SO AGAIN LIKE TO SAY, I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE IN OPERATING A DETOX. I'VE NOT BEEN IN THAT. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OPERATING A DETOX. I KNOW I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF DETOXIFICATION. ANSWER HIS QUESTION. REPEAT THE QUESTION QUESTION. I THINK YOU CAN ANSWER HIS QUESTION. DO YOU FEEL THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DETOX AND THE POINT OF PATIENT IS IN WHEN THEY FIRST COME TO DETOX AND LATER ON WHEN THEY'RE AT A HALFWAY HOUSE. I'VE SEEN. YES AND NO. HONESTLY I'VE SEEN PEOPLE THAT ARE THAT ARE IN MY EXPERIENCE. DRUG FREE FOR ONE YEAR AND GO OUT AND USE THE NEXT DAY OF COMPLETELY UNEXPLAINABLE . I'VE SEEN PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN DETOXED AND GONE INTO SHORT TERM TREATMENT FOR 14 TO 21 DAYS AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAVE LIVED ON A SOLID PATH OF RECOVERY. THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE. IT IS NOT A COOKIE CUTTER APPROACH. IT IS NOT WHY I'M NOT COMFORTABLE AGREEING WITH THAT STATEMENT, BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S TRUE. YES SIR . IT'S A YOU KNOW, NOT JUST NOT INDIVIDUAL INDIVIDUAL SITUATIONS CAN BE DIFFERENT. BUT YOU DID SAY THAT. YOU'RE IN THE IN CRAWFORD HOUSE AS A HALFWAY HOUSE, YOU WILL LEAST RESTRICTIVE BECAUSE AND I'M ASSUMING YOU WERE AT LEAST RESTRICTED BECAUSE THESE WOMEN WERE GETTING PREPARED TO GO OUT AND BE MORE FUNCTIONAL AND GO OUT IN SOCIETY. CORRECT. YES AND ALSO LEAST RESTRICTED BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE LICENSING STANDARDS DICTATED. BUT NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS PEOPLE WHO AND I THINK THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT THIS GENTLEMAN IS ASKING IS THAT THESE THE CURRENT DEMOGRAPHICS THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR ARE GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN NEED IMMEDIATE NEED OF [02:10:03] DETOX VERSUS PEOPLE WHO ARE A LITTLE MORE ADVANCED IN THE PROGRAM THAT THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING. BUT I BELIEVE THERE'S AN INACCURACY AND THAT STATEMENT. I THINK I BELIEVE THERE IS AN INACCURACY AND THAT STATEMENT. BECAUSE THE DRIVING FORCE FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE AND THE ABILITY TO PAY THAT ENTER TREATMENT AT ANY STAGE OF THEIR ADDICTION IS A VERY DIFFERENT THING THAN PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING SENT TO TREATMENT AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO INCARCERATION. UH I BELIEVE IT'S . IT'S VERY DIFFERENT AND I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SAY ONE IS THE SAME AS THE OTHER GUY. SUMMARIZE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THAT DETOXIFICATION IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR ENTRANCE INTO A HALFWAY HOUSE. IT WAS THERE'S NO THERE'S NO, UH, SEQUENCE OF EVENTS TO HAVE TO OCCUR, SO YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE TWO IS THAT CORRECT? RIGHT? THAT'S HIS ANSWER. YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE IT OR YOU MIGHT HAVE INFORMATION WHEN I JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT IS TESTIMONY. HOW, HE SAID SEVERAL TIMES. QUESTIONS POINT LAST YOU GIVE YOUR TO GIVE YOUR COMMENTS . YOU'RE GOING TO POINT IT OUT. WHEN YOU GIVE YOUR COMMENTS. IT'S THE TIME TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS IF YOU DON'T LIKE AN ANSWER. THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. AT THIS POINT. THE POINT OF THESE PROCEDURES IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S FAIRLY ADJUDICATED FOR ALL INVOLVED. SO THE BOTH THE TOWNSHIP AND THE AFRICANS ARE HAVE FAIR FAIRNESS. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE BEING CAREFUL THERE. SURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. VIRGINIA HERRING 63 HILLCREST AVENUE. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT LAST NAME? WHICH ER G. THANK YOU. OKAY SO TAKE QUESTIONS. ARE THERE ALREADY CAMERAS INSIDE THE CRAWFORD HOUSE? OR ABILITY INSTALLED. OH HE DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT CRAWFORD, THE NEWHOUSE, NEWHOUSE! YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT THEIR CAMERAS, CAMERAS CRAWFORD HOUSE CAMERAS IN CRAWFORD HOUSE WHERE THERE ARE CAMERAS IN CRAWFORD HOUSE OR NO CAMERAS. AND THEN ARE YOU THE CURRENT CEO OF CRAWFORD HOUSE? WE CAN'T HEAR THE QUESTION CURRENCY CURRENT CEO OF THE CRAWFORD HOUSE, NO. OKAY? YOU SAID YOU HAD THREE QUESTIONS THAT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ASK TWO OF THEM. SORRY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR QUESTIONS. DOUGLAS HERRING 63 FIELDCREST AVENUE. UM I THINK I KNOW WHAT THE THIRD QUESTION WAS. NOT THE CEO, CAN YOU AGAIN? CAN YOU WHAT IS THIS BETTER? ALL RIGHT. THE CORPORATION OR THEY STILL THE OWNERS OF CRAWFORD HOUSE. DATE DATA EMERGED IN OCTOBER OF 2020 WITH THE CENTER INTEGRATED HEALTH SO DATA DOESN'T EXIST. IT'S ASCENDING, INTEGRATED HEALTH, RIGHT? SO WE'LL SEND IT INTEGRATED HEALTH. ARE THEY THE OWNERS OF THE CURRENT PROPERTY? YES. AND PENCHANT UPON. THEM RECEIVING THE VARIANTS. ALLOW NEW COMPANY TO BE THERE, RIGHT? I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT BECAUSE HE'S NOT A CURRENT EMPLOYEE. DO YOU KNOW EMPLOYEE OF ASCENDED TO GRATED KNOWS THE ANSWER. HE CAN ANSWER IT. IF HE DOESN'T KNOW. HE'LL SAY HE DOESN'T KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND HIS QUESTION. HE WANTS TO KNOW. ARE YOU AWARE OF WHETHER OR NOT THE CONTRACT FOR SALE BETWEEN THE CURRENT OWNER AND THE PROPOSED OWNER IS CONTINGENT UPON THE PROPOSED OWNER. OBTAINING THE RELIEF THAT THEY'RE HERE FOR IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD. YES, I BELIEVE SO. THANK YOU VERY. HELLO RICK GARCIA V A G H A S. I Y A 66 SQUIRREL DRIVE. SKILLMAN UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT MOST OF THE PATIENTS WERE REQUESTED TO BE CLEAN, SO TO SPEAK FOR 14 DAYS. AT THE CRAWFORD HOUSE EXPERTISE. WHY WAS THAT 14 DAYS IMPLEMENTED? WHAT WAS IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT FIRST PERIOD OF DETOX. THAT WAS THE STANDARD THAT WAS SET BY CRAWFORD HOUSE BEFORE IT BECAME A PART OF DATA , AND WE JUST CONTINUED WITH THAT, BUT WE MADE WE WERE VERY FLEXIBLE IN YOUR EXPERTISE. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE 1ST 14 DAYS ARE CRUCIAL AS FAR AS DETOX ON AS FAR AS WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS ? DELIRIUM TREMENS LOT OF THESE DANGEROUS THINGS THAT OCCUR IN THE FIRST 1 TO 2 WEEKS OF A DETOX PROGRAM. AND PERHAPS YOU DIDN'T HAVE YOU ASKING ABOUT CRAWFORD HOUSE NOW OR A DETAIL OR IS 14 DAY RULE. CRAWFORD HOUSE, HE SAID. DIDN'T BEAT DIDN'T DO DETOX? NO, BUT I'M ASKING ABOUT WHY THEY IMPLEMENTED THE 14 DAY RULE. JUST BE CAREFUL IN WHAT YOU'RE ASKING HIM YOU IF YOU WANT TO [02:15:06] KNOW THAT THAT'S ONE QUESTION YOU DIDN'T QUESTION YOU JUST ASKED HIM. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. YOU THOUGHT YOU ASKED HIM. I MEAN, HE MENTIONED HIS EXPERTISE ALL THESE YEARS AND I'M KIND OF OKAY, ASKING ABOUT HIS EXPERTISE IN IN THIS FIELD. AND YOU KNOW HIM AGAIN AGAIN. PERIOD OF DETOX. UM YOU KNOW, IN YOUR EXPERTISE WHAT? YOU KNOW WHAT ARE THE CRUCIAL THINGS IN THE 1ST 14 DAYS AND PERHAPS WHY CRAWFORD HOUSE IMPLEMENTED THAT RULE. THE IF IN TERMS OF SOMEBODY WHO HAS TO BE DETOXED. WHAT'S CRUCIAL. IS THERE ACCESS TO MEDICATION? TO BE DETOXED TO FACILITATE THE DETOXIFICATION PROCESS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE MEDICATION TO DO THAT, SO THEY COULD SAFELY WITHDRAW UNTIL THE DETOXIFICATION MEDICATION IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. IN TERMS OF DETOX, SO IT'S THE FIRST HOURS REALLY NOT THE 1ST 14 DAYS. AS MR KEMPSON SAID, TYPICALLY A DETOX. UM IT'S FUN, YOU KNOW, DETOX TYPICALLY, IN MY JUST MY OPINION, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS HOW LONG YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY IS GOING TO COVER YOU TO STAY THERE. ABOUT. WE KNOW THAT'S TYPICALLY FOR FIVE DAYS, DEPENDING ON THE DIAGNOSIS. IN TERMS OF YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHY DATA CONTINUED THAT STANDARD OF ASKING PEOPLE TO BE OFF OF DRUGS FOR 14 DAYS PRIOR TO ADMISSION. BECAUSE WE WOULD IN A THE WAY THEY HALFWAY HOUSES WERE SET UP . WAS THAT TYPICALLY WOMEN WERE DRUG FREE OR ANYBODY. A MAN WAS DRUG FREE. A LOT LONGER THAN 14 DAYS BEFORE THEY WERE ADMITTED TO A HALFWAY HOUSE. THAT'S THE WAY THEY HALFWAY HOUSES WERE DEVELOPED. HOWEVER THE WORLD CHANGED AND WE IF WE WOULD HAVE REQUIRED EVERYONE TO HAVE 14 DAYS, 30 DAYS, 30 DAYS DRUG FREE 90 DAYS DRUG FREE, THE FACILITY WOULD HAVE BEEN THREE QUARTERS EMPTY. THE WORLD CHANGED DISEASES CHANGED THE DRUGS THE WOMEN WERE USING. CHANGED THE CONSEQUENCES BECAME MUCH MORE SEVERE AND DIRE. SO THE 14 DAY RULE WAS IN PLACE WHEN WE TOOK IT OVER AND WE KEPT IT. WE KEPT IT, BUT THE DIRECTORS WERE EMPOWERED. THE ADMISSION STAFF WERE EMPOWERED TO BE QUITE FLEXIBLE. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, DO YOU ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY MEDICAL IMPLICATION OF THOSE 14 DAYS? NO I'M NOT AWARE OF MEDICAL IMPLICATIONS. THANK YOU. OKAY THANK YOU. I THINK THAT WAS ACTUALLY VERY QUICK QUESTION. I LEARNED SOMETHING SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, SO I UNDERSTAND IT THAT THE WORD DETOX ACTUALLY IMPLIES THAT ADMINISTRATION OF MEDICINE , BUT THE WITHHOLDING OF THE SUBSTANCE FROM SOMEONE IS NOT DETOX. I THINK I CONFLATED THE TWO YES. WE KNOW TODAY THROUGH SCIENCE AND RESEARCH THAT THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION IS A DISEASE OF THE BRAIN, WHICH IS WHY IT IS REQUIRED FOR CERTAIN DIAGNOSES TO HAVE MEDICATION, AND THAT'S AND THAT'S CALLED DETOX. MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DETOXED COULD BE OTHER COULD BE THE USE OF OTHER MEDICATIONS. BILL DELANEY, 45 ELM SKILLING. TWO QUESTIONS. FIRST QUESTION DURING YOUR TENURE. HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU HAVE UNAUTHORIZED DEPARTURES IN A WEEKLY MONTHLY BASIS DURING THOSE YEARS? I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. BUT YOU DID HAVE YOU CAN'T ANSWER. YOU CAN'T ANSWER IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW . OKAY, SO LET'S SAY I DON'T KNOW KEPT OR ANY KIND OF LOGS OR ANY KIND OF JUST KEPT DATA AROUND ALL OUR ADMISSIONS AND OUTCOMES, OKAY? NUMBER TWO. WHY WAS IT ONLY A WOMAN'S TREATMENT FACILITY? I DON'T KNOW. OKAY? THAT WAS IT. THANK YOU. WHAT THE QUESTION WAS. WHY WAS IT ONLY A WOMEN'S FACILITY. GOOD EVENING, MARGARET CHURCH ON DR SKILLMAN. DO YOU KNOW WHAT WAS LOCATED AT CRAWFORD HOUSE BEFORE IT BECAME CRAWFORD HOUSE? AT THE TIME IT TAKES. YOU CANNOT. YOU CAN'T. YOU CAN'T WHAT? TESTIMONY. TO I'M NOT GOING TO IF I IF I COULD I TELL YOU IT WAS A FARM. TELL US LATER, IF YOU COULD, IF YOU COULD. YES, IT HAD DIRT. FROM THE TIME THAT CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1978. I THINK IT'S A 77. BUT 77 70. HOW HAS THE NEIGHBOR? HOW HAD THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHANGED? NO. WOULD [02:20:08] YOU SAY MORE HOMES WERE BUILT IN THE COMMUNITY. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY HOMES BACKYARDS BUT UP AGAINST THE PROPERTY FOR CRAWFORD HOUSE. DON'T GUESS IF YOU DON'T KNOW, JUST SAYING, I DON'T KNOW. DO YOU KNOW IF THERE WERE ANY COMPLAINTS FROM THE COMMUNITY? REGARDING INDIVIDUALS WALKING THROUGH THE COMMUNITY WALKING THROUGH YARDS OR. HAVING DRUG DEALERS DELIVER THEM DRUGS ON THE CORNERS IN THAT AREA. WELL, IT WAS CRAWFORD HOUSE. I CAN ONLY SAY IN THE PERIOD OF 2014 TO 2001. I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY COMMUNITY COMMUNITY 1014 TO 2021. I'M SORRY 2014 TO 2021 AS THE I'M NOT AWARE OF COMPLAINTS , CERTAINLY NOT AWARE OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT DRUG DEALING. OKAY? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THAT IS ONE WORD. MAYBE MORE. YEAH. YEAH, GREAT. NAME IS DAVID MERIT. I'LL HAVE AN ON DRIVE. QUESTION I HAVE IS DAVID MERRITT. 11 ELM. SO MY QUESTION IS SINCE THE CRAWFORD HOUSE WAS PURCHASED, AND IN RECENT TIMES WHEN THE USE OF THE FACILITY CHANGED. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE CHANGES SUCH AS DEFORESTATION OR SUBJECT SYSTEM UPGRADES? MY QUESTION IS BASED ON THE FACT THAT OF PROPERTIES THAT BACK UP TO THAT WHERE YOU WE REFERENCE THAT THERE'S FORESTATION. MANY TREES BETWEEN THAT CRAWFORD HOUSE AND THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES THAT ARE NO LONGER THERE THAT WERE THERE WHEN THE LAST TIME THIS BOARD REVIEWED TO ASK, ASK HIM YOUR QUESTION AGAIN. RIGHT MY QUESTION IS ABOUT TREES ON THE PROPERTY SINCE THE LAST TIME I ASKED HIM SINCE THIS BOARD REVIEWED SOMETHING RELATED TO THE PROPERTY HAVE BEEN REMOVED AND OR HAS INFRASTRUCTURE RECORD ON THE PROPERTY BEEN DONE? THAT'S HIS QUESTION. DID YOU HEAR HIS QUESTION? HE NEVER. WE DIDN'T VERY MUCH IT'S EITHER. YES NO, OR I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. FEEL NOT INSTALLED 34 YEARS AGO. NO NO TO CLARIFY YOU DID TESTIFY THAT IN 2016. THERE WAS SOME CONSTRUCTION ON THE PROPERTY. IS THAT CORRECT? IT WAS, UH YEAH, THERE WAS AN OLD GARAGE, I BELIEVE OR A BOND. THAT WAS THAT WAS LET ME ASK YOU THIS IN 2016. WAS THERE A TWO STORY BUILDING THAT WAS DEMOED IN THE 926 SQUARE FOOT. BUILDING THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED. YES DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT CONSTRUCTION THE DEMO AND CONSTRUCTION TOOK PLACE? YES. SO WHERE WAS THAT? THERE WERE ANY TREES TAKEN DOWN TO ACCOMMODATE THAT THAT DEMO AND CONSTRUCTION I'M AWARE OF. QUESTIONS QUESTIONS I HAVE. THANK YOU, MR MERRITT. HELLO MY NAME IS CLAUDIO TARQUINIO. TA R Q. U N I O I LIVE AT 24 BRANDYWINE ROAD. I'VE BEEN A MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP PRESIDENT SINCE 1991. AT THE AGE OF 28 ASK HIM. I MOVED TO MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP ASKED HIM THE QUESTION . NO COMMENTARY, NO EDITORIALS, TESTIMONY. ASK HIM THE QUESTIONS, PLEASE. HOW MANY TIMES WAS MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP? POLICE DEPARTMENT DISPATCHED TO THE CRAWFORD HOUSE. I DON'T KNOW. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU? DURING YOUR PERIOD AS THE CEO. ALLOWED PATIENTS OR YOUR GUEST. TO LEAVE THE PREMISES. NOT FOR LOOKING FOR JOBS BUT TO WALK AROUND IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. DID YOU PERMIT THAT? NO. THANK YOU FOR PUTTING IT ON THE RECORD. AND YOU ARE COMMITTING PERJURY. THANK YOU. V AND DR KILLMAN. OKAY YOU NEED HELP? SURE YOU GOTTA SPELL THE NAMES. CALVI. A T I N D A L V I AND DR SKILLMAN. THANK YOU. YOU MENTIONED, UM IN IN IN YOUR TESTIMONY OR THAT YOUR FACILITY [02:25:06] CONDUCTED SOME SCIENCE AND RESEARCH CAN YOU PLEASE ELABORATE ON ON WHAT? THAT SCIENCE AND RESEARCH WAS DURING YOUR TENURE? MOST OF NO. I DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL. WE DIDN'T CONDUCT RESEARCH WE RELY ON ON ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES ADMINISTRATION, THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF DRUG ADDICTION. TEXAS CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY. WE RELY ON VARIOUS RESEARCH BASED INSTITUTIONS FOR OUR FIELD RESEARCH. WE DIDN'T CONDUCT RESEARCH. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM AND WHILE YOU DID THAT, UM, YOU REFERRED TO CERTAIN, UM , RESEARCH PAPERS CONDUCTED BY NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS. THAT'S HOW I UNDERSTAND IT TO ME. IS THERE COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENT FOR YOU AS A CEO TO MAINTAIN LOGS AND RECORDS FOR ALL YOUR EMS SERVICES THAT YOU CALL FOR? EVERY POLICE WITH IT. SO THAT HAPPENED AS WELL AS ANY INCIDENT OF DRUG AND FEDERATION OR YOUR PATIENTS WALKING OUT OF THE FACILITY. I KNOW YOU ANSWERED. THAT DOESN'T KNOW. BUT AS A PART OF THOSE RESEARCH STUDIES DOES THAT MANDATE YOUTUBE MAINTAIN ANY OF THOSE LOGS? NO. DOES IT HAVE? I DON'T I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION ABOUT RESEARCH AND LAWS. IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OUTSTANDING INCIDENTS THAT HAPPENED OUTSTANDING INCIDENTS WHERE SOMEBODY L APPS OR THERE'S AN OUTSTANDING INCIDENT. SOMEBODY BROUGHT DRUGS BACK TO THE FACILITY. OF COURSE WE HAD. WE WOULD KEEP. WE WOULD KEEP INCIDENT REPORTS ON THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT THAT WE HAD A SAFETY COMMITTEE. THAT WOULD LOOK AT THAT THEY'D AGGREGATE THAT DATA, ANALYZE IT AND LOOK FOR AREAS OF PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT. BUT THAT'S NOT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RESEARCH WHERE THOSE RESEARCH BODIES, OKAY, WE HAVE SAFETY POLICIES. THAT'S THAT'S FINE. AND YOU KNOW, LIKE EARLIER YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU DID NOT HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT. SO I WAS JUST CHECKING ON IT. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS. GOOD EVENING. ANDREW GREENBERG. J R E M P E R G 40 FIELDCREST AVENUE, SKILLMAN. UH FIRST QUESTION, SIR. IS IN YOUR TENURE. CORPORATE HOUSE. CAN YOU AGAIN GET CLOSER TO THAT, MIKE? FIRST QUESTION IN YOUR TENURE AT CRAWFORD HOUSE? WHAT PERCENT OF YOUR WORKING TIME TO SPEND ON THE PREMISES. 10% 10% AND THEN TO JUST CLARIFY WHAT I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO. EARLIER, UM THE RESIDENTS WERE NOT ALLOWED OFF THE PROPERTY AND SUPERVISED. IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? PERMITTED TO WALK THROUGH THE COMMUNITY. SO THEN, ARE YOU SAYING THAT THAT NEVER HAPPENED? NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT NEVER HAPPENED, OKAY? AND I'M ALSO CURIOUS TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE WHERE THE POLICE ARE EMS EVERY SUMMER INTO CRAWFORD HOUSE. CANNOT BE SURE THEY WERE. YES I WAS THINKING YOUR CAPACITY, YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTANDING OR KNOWLEDGE OF THOSE EVENTS, I PRESUME. I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE THAT WOULD BRING THEM OUT. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO CLARIFY. I WAS THE CEO OF THE ORGANIZATION. I WASN'T, THE CLINICAL PROGRAM DIRECTOR SO THE POLICE WOULD COME TO CRAWFORD HOUSE AND YOU WOULDN'T YOU WOULDN'T BE MADE AWARE OF WHAT THE ISSUE WAS. NO I WOULD. YES I WOULD. SO TYPICALLY, IF THERE WAS IF THERE ARE POLICE WERE CALLED TYPICALLY AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT HAPPENED OFTEN, BUT TYPICALLY, IT WOULD BE TO SOME MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS. THAT WOMAN WAS EXPERIENCED. IT COULD HAVE BEEN RELATED. TO ESCALATING THE VIEWERS BETWEEN THE WOMEN. AND JUST TO CLARIFY ONE LAST TIME. SO. YOU'RE NOT SAYING THAT THE WOMEN NEVER WORKED WALK THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT I'M SAYING IS, I NEVER PERMITTED THEM. WE HAD RULES THAT THEY COULDN'T WALK AND ANYTHING DID WALK THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT WAS THE CONSEQUENCE? IT COULD BE A IF THEY DID FOR BEHAVIOR LIKE THAT. IT COULD BE A CONTRACTOR BEHAVIORAL CONTRACT. IT COULD BE A MOVE BACK IN PHASE. LET'S SAY THEY WERE IN BASE TWO AND MOVE BACK TO ONE WHERE IT WAS A LITTLE MORE RESTRICTIVE. IT COULD BE A WARNING IT COULD BE A MEETING WITH THEIR PROBATION OFFICER TO REINFORCE THEY HAD TO FOLLOW THE RULES IF THEY WERE GOING TO CONTINUING TREATMENT. THERE AGAIN. NO COOKIE COLOR CUTTER APPROACH TO RULE VIOLATIONS. BUT I CAN TELL YOU WE WERE WELL AWARE THAT THE WOMEN IN OUR CARE WE DIDN'T WANT THEM WALKING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD WERE WELL AWARE OF THE STIGMA THAT'S INVOLVED WITH [02:30:04] ADDICTION AND WHAT PEOPLE SEE, AND WE'RE WELL AWARE THAT THAT MAKES PEOPLE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE IN THEIR IN THEIR ORGANIZATION, DAYTOP OPERATED MANY TREATMENT PROGRAMS IN MANY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES. WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION DOES TO SOME PEOPLE AND WE WERE VERY STRICT ABOUT THE RULES. BUT AGAIN, IT WAS VOLUNTARY SO IF A WOMAN WALKED OFF THE PROPERTY AGAINST STAFF'S ADVICE AND WALK DOWN THE STREET THE TYPICALLY THE PROCESS WOULD BE TO CALL TO GO AFTER THEM TO GET IN A STEP TO GET INTO A VEHICLE TO GO TO TRY TO TALK THEM TO COME BACK. IN DOING SO THAT WOULD BE A TYPICAL PROCESS. WHAT IT SURPRISE YOU. THEN IF YOU HAD LEARNED THAT 567 WOMEN WOULD ROOT ROUTINELY WALK DOWN FIELDCREST AVENUE IN THE LATE MORNING ON A DAILY BASIS. WOULD IT SURPRISE ME? YES. YES I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED. HMM. GOOD EVENING, JANET CHURCH DRIVE, SKILLMAN. I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION. WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO THIS MEETING TONIGHT? WE ARE THE SELLER OF THE PROPERTY. I KNOW ABOUT THE SALE OF THE PROPERTY. HE TESTIFIED. ANYTHING HE YEAH. SO YOU'RE REPRESENTING THE SELLER HERE TONIGHT? YES, THANK YOU. THAT'S IT. THE QUESTION IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION THERE JUST TO CLARIFY THERE'S NO RELATION FUTURE RELATIONSHIP, NO PROMISE OF ANY FUTURE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND NO , THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR AND THEN I AND I VERY MUCH THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING ALL THESE QUESTIONS. I KNOW IT WAS UNEXPECTED FOR YOU. OKAY I WILL PERMIT ANOTHER QUESTION AFTER THE NAME O BODY 345 SUNSET ROAD . COULD YOU SPELL YOUR NAME? PLEASE BE A T T I THANK YOU, UM, DID THE HEALTHCARE REGULATIONS? IS THAT WHAT PROMPTED THE 12 DAY RULE THAT YOU HAD, WHERE 30 SHOULD NOT BE INTOXICATED IS THAT THE DRIVER? OKAY GREAT. THANK YOU, SULLIVAN. YOU HAD A QUESTION EARLIER. ARE YOU? JUST ONE QUESTION AND I AND MAYBE IT WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE DETOXIFICATION DOESN'T NECESSARILY IMPLY THAT PEOPLE ARE GIVEN MEDICATION CORRECT. IT DOES. OKAY? VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOU TAKING YOUR TIME TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION. IT DOES CLARIFY QUICK WITH SOME QUESTIONS. YES, YOUR THIS IS YOUR YOU REALIZE. YOU ASK HIM FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS EVERY CROSS, OKAY? OKAY, THAT'S FINE. SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE WOMEN'S ABILITY TO LEAVE THE SITE. THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED CARS. CORRECT WE'RE NOT HEARING YOU NOW. I'M SORRY. AND MR DRILL. I APPRECIATE YOU REMINDING ALL THE WITNESSES AND I MAKING SURE THE RECORDS CLEAR AND I DO VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THAT. AND I HOPE YOU CONTINUE TO DO THAT. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. UM THE PATIENTS THERE THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE VEHICLES CORRECT. CARS THERE. THE WOMEN WHO ARE AT THE AT THE HOUSE THEY COULD HAVE HAD OF VEHICLE. THERE WAS NO RULE THAT SAID A WOMAN WHO WAS WORKING, HOWEVER, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE THAT NEVER HAPPENED AND CONFIDENT THAT NONE OF THE WOMEN RECEIVING CARE ACTUALLY EVER WITH DRIVING THEMSELVES BACK AND FORTH. THEY'RE JUST FINANCIALLY. THEY WEREN'T THERE YET. OKAY HARD RULE THAT THEY COULDN'T HAVE A CAR. HOWEVER IT JUST NEVER MATERIALIZED BECAUSE MOST OF THE WOMEN WERE NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY WHERE THEY COULD SUPPORT THEIR OWN TRANSPORTATION. OKAY AND EMPLOYEES. THEY COULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE THEIR CARS TO GET TO THE SITE. YES, AND HOW MANY EMPLOYEES WERE ON THE SITE, WOULD YOU SAY APPROXIMATELY DAY AND NIGHT? COULD BE ON AGAIN. IT WOULD CHANGE DEPENDING ON THE SCHEDULE COULD BE AS MANY AS EIGHT IN THE DAY AND FOUR AT NIGHT 2 TO 4, DEPENDING ON THE SCHEDULE, AND ONE ON THE OVERNIGHT ALWAYS OKAY. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IN 1 4000 TO THOSE RESOLUTIONS THAT WERE ADOPTED THE EXPANSION THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT THAT ALLOWED UP TO 13 EMPLOYEES? DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT TO YOU? I DON'T RECALL. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE. QUESTIONS I HAVE, UH SO I JUST WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT WE WILL DO IT. WE DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REDIRECT BECAUSE THEY ASKED, BUT I WOULD I WOULD CLARIFY THAT ANY ANY QUESTIONS ON REDIRECT HAS TO BE RELATED TO THE SPECIFIC TESTIMONY THAT HE JUST GAVE JUST PRIOR, PLEASE. MY NAME IS JOHN [02:35:10] SPROUT OUR LIVE ON 3 44 SUNSET ROAD. CAN YOU SPELL THE LAST NAME PLEASE W E. R. UM. ON THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE WALKING FROM THE FACILITY GIVING TESTIMONY. PARDON ME. ARE YOU ASKING HIM A QUESTION? THAT HAS TO BE A QUESTION FROM WHAT HE JUST SAID ON THE REDIRECT IT CAN'T GO BACK IN TIME. THE QUESTION NO. ABOUT THE QUESTION WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO OKAY. IT HAS TO BE A QUESTION DIRECTED TOWARDS MR CURTAIN HAS TO BE A QUESTION DIRECTED TOWARDS MR CURTIN AND THE REDIRECT TESTIMONY HE JUST GAVE IN RESPONSE TO THE ATTORNEYS QUESTIONS. IT CAN'T GO BACK IN TIME TO THE REST OF HIS TESTIMONY AND ANOTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC'S QUESTIONS DON'T ISN'T AN INTEREST. SOME PEOPLE EXPRESSED THE CONCERN, IS IT NOT ? YOU WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS YOUR COMMENTS AND CONCERNS AND REBUTTALS OF ANY TESTIMONY AT A LATER TIME. ALRIGHT 11 IS THE LATER TIME COULD BE TONIGHT, BUT IT COULD ALSO BE WELL, I PUT IT THERE. HE WANTS TO KNOW. SO THE PROCEDURE IS THE APPLICANT. BUT EACH OF HIS WITNESSES ON MH WITNESS GIVES DIRECT TESTIMONY IN RESPONSE TO THE ATTORNEYS QUESTIONS. THEN THE BOARD CHAIR ASKS BOARD MEMBERS IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THEN AFTER THAT, THE BOARD CHAIR ASKS THE BOARD EXPERTS. IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THEN THE BOARD EXPERT S MEMBERS OF PUBLIC THAT THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS WHEN HE GETS TO HIS FINAL WITNESS IN THE FINAL QUESTIONS, THE APPLICANT ATTORNEYS AT SOME POINT IS GOING TO SAY I'M DONE. I REST MY CASE , THEN THE CHAIRMAN IS GOING TO SAY TO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. OKAY ANYONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE ANY SWORN COMMENTS IF THEY WANT TO BRING ANY EXPERTS OF THEIR OWN IN THAT'S THE TIME I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING. THERE'S NO WAY ON EARTH THAT THAT'S HAPPENING TONIGHT. YEAH IT'S JUST NOT GONNA. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN TODAY. APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY SO THERE WILL BE ANOTHER HEARING AND THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION BEFORE? SHE CALLS HIS NECK WITNESS THAT MAYBE YOU GIVE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS FOR BIO BREAK FOR EVERYONE. I THINK ACTUALLY DEFERRED TO THE ATTORNEY MEMBERS AND ALSO THE BOARD. BUT I KNOW WE WOULD LIKE TO BREAK I GUESS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT YOUR PLAN IS. AFTER WE COME BACK FROM THE BREAK, SO I'D LIKE I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS. NOT A FEW MORE. I HAVE A LOT MORE QUESTIONS FOR MR KEMPSON AS TO OPERATIONS, AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO TAKE UP A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME. I THINK THERE IS TESTIMONY HE CAN PROVIDE AS TO NEED THAT I MENTIONED IN MY OPENING THAT I THINK MAYBE WE CAN START WITH THAT WITH THE NEED. MAYBE START OPERATIONAL TESTIMONY AND WE'LL SEE HOW FAR WE CAN GET. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS BOARD DO YOU HAVE A USUAL HARD CUT OFF TIME, OR IS IT WHAT? YEAH, WELL, 10 10. O'CLOCK, USUALLY, YEAH. NOPE. I THINK WE CAN START WITH THE NEW TESTIMONY AND THEN MAYBE MAKE A CALL ONCE THAT WE CAN TAKE A 10 MINUTE. I'M SORRY. A SEVEN MINUTE BIO BREAK OR SO OR 59 45 ALREADY. THAT'S THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO CLARIFY. DIDN'T REALIZE THE TIME BOARD MEMBERS FINE WITH THAT, SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE ON ITS GREAT SO, MR KEMPSON AND AGAIN YOU'RE STILL UNDER OATH. CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION IF YOU'RE DONE THANK YOU SO MUCH. I KNOW IT'S OVER FOR THE MICROPHONE. SO MR KEMPSON IN MY OPENING, I TALKED A LITTLE BIT AS TO THE NEED HERE, AND MR CURTIN SAID A LITTLE BIT IN HIS HIS EXPERIENCE. HOW NEED HAS GONE UP , BUT YOU HAVE SOME SPECIFIC FIGURES AND STATISTICS. GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD OF ADDICTION TREATMENT, AND I WAS HOPING THAT YOU CAN PROVIDE TO THIS BOARD SOME OF THOSE FIGURES SPECIFICALLY AS TO THE NEED RIGHT NOW. SO THE FROM THESE NUMBERS ARE DIRECTLY FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES. IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION FOR EVERYONE. OKAY SO WHEN YOU DO THAT, JUST GIVE US THE IDENTIFICATION OF THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU'VE GOTTEN THIS FROM STATE WEBSITE. GIVE US THE WEBSITE. IF IT'S A DOCUMENT TELL US WHAT THE DOCUMENT TITLE IS. THANK YOU. BECOME MY PHONE. SO WE ACTUALLY. AND WHATER THEVE DOMENTCUS, I WTHER IHES FROMT' A WEITE OBSA DOCUR NTME. PLSE I'M TO THBOARD E FICEOF. KING TAS APPLIHENTCA TORNEYATUBMITT S TO THEDE BRD OMORRO TW. WE HAVA COPYE HE AND WRE CANE CTAINLYER SUBT CAN MK THISAR AS YOU C ANRK THAMATS EXHI ATBI ANE O IF EXHINT IU NTIFYDEHAT P TASELE T ABI ONE. WTHA EXALYCT WT ABUSYER DG AND RUCOHOLAL EREATME T. NTBSTANCSUEBUSE A OVVIEWER 2021 FOROMERSE S TUNTYCO. ANDHAT IS WHAT? C TAN AIN WPLT THATHAOCUMEN D T? SO TISTHA GOESVER DI OERENTFF DA THROUTAOUT TGHHE SO THIIS O DOCUMNETEN. THE'S ALERSO [02:40:01] EOCUMEN D THATT DOCURENCRE AS WEEDLL OTHATN GETDOCMEENT.UM WE WA TONT COVED ASARN EXHI AT.BI YEP IT . WERS WT TO SANEE WHO PRUCED IODTO SEE T THEIF BOA ORN TAKECA JICIALUDOTICE N IT.F THINTHE'S SERE SPECOMLIA DATAHAG,VEO TO DIF DRENTFE HAT T THE DEPTMENT AR OFMANHUERVICE SS A THE DNDISIONV UNTYCOR O THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY OF HUMAN SERVICES, OKAY. FROM MY KNOWLEDGE. WHAT DOES IT SAY IN THE DEATH? CAN I SEE THAT DOCUMENT, PLEASE? YEP. ALL RIGHT. OKAY? THIS DOCUMENT ON THE BOTTOM SAYS TODAY. TWO JULY 2022. IT IS TITLED THE TOP NEW JERSEY DRUG AND ALCOHOL ABUSE TREATMENT. THEN IT SAYS SUBSTANCE ABUSE OVERVIEW 2021. SOMERSET COUNTY, THE NEW JERSEY STATE SEAL IS ON IT AND ON THE BOTTOM OF THE DOCUMENT, IT SAYS DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION SERVICES OFFICE OF PLANNING, RESEARCH, EVALUATION PREVENTION AND OLMSTEAD, TRENTON, NEW JERSEY. SO WE WILL CHECK THIS OUT. BUT ASSUMING THAT THIS IS WHAT IT PURPORTS TO BE, WHICH I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT IT IS, IN MY OPINION, THE BOARD CAN TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF THIS DOCUMENT. SO YOU'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO MARK IT ON THE BOTTOM A ONE WITH TODAY'S DATE. DOES HE NEED US TO TESTIFY WITH OR CAN YOU TESTIFY WITHOUT IT? IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO LOOK AT THAT. BUT I CAN PULL UP RIGHT HERE. SO LET'S GIVE IT TO HIM AND THEN, AFTER HE'S DONE, WE'LL GIVE IT TO THE BOARD. SECRETARY CAN YOU JUST EMAIL TOMORROW WILL COPY OF IT SO SHE CAN DISTRIBUTE IT TO THE BOARD MEMBERS. GET CAN I MARK THIS STATEWIDE DOCUMENT THAT'S ONLY THE COUNTY. YOU'LL HAVE A SECOND EXHIBIT MANY EXHIBITORS YOU WANT SO I'M REFERENCING THE STATE LINE. ALRIGHT SO YOU START WITH A ONE, PLEASE. OKAY REMARKABLE. SO IT WAS IDENTIFIED. IT WAS MARKED AS EXHIBIT A ONE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE BOARD IN LAYMAN'S TERMS? WHAT THAT DOCUMENT IS THIS REALLY TRACKS DATA OF ALL THE DIFFERENT TREATMENT CENTERS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY AND ALSO ON THE COUNTY LEVEL. UH REALLY, THE ADMISSIONS THROUGHOUT THE STATE WHAT TYPE OF SUBSTANCES THEY'RE UTILIZING WHEN THEY COME INTO TREATMENT. UH DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CARE AND HOW MANY ADMISSIONS THROUGHOUT THE STATE THERE WERE. UM, ALSO THE UNMET DEMAND WITHIN THE STATE AS WELL. THAT THAT'S REALLY ON THE STATE LEVEL. I DIDN'T REFERENCE THIS SOMERSET COUNTY LEVEL. OKAY SO THE NEXT DOCUMENT WENT TO REFERENCE IS IT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. ON A STATEWIDE BASIS STATE THEY HAVE A HARD COPY OF THIS NEXT DOCUMENT. DO NOT HAVE THE HARD COPY HERE. CAN YOU READ TO US? WHAT DOCUMENT YOU REFERRING TO WHAT TO SAY ON THE TITLE PAGE, SO IT IS NEW JERSEY DRUG AND ALCOHOL TREATMENT. OR ALCOHOL ABUSE TREATMENT. SUBSTANCE ABUSE OVERVIEW. 2021 STATEWIDE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION SERVICES OFFICER PLANNING RESEARCH EVALUATION PREVENTION. HOMESTEAD TRENTON, NEW JERSEY. SO WHAT'S THE DATE ON THE BOTTOM? JULY 2022. YES IT'S ESSENTIALLY THIS DOCUMENT UNDERSTAND? STATEWIDE LEVEL. I GET IT, BUT YOU GOT TO SUBMIT THAT TOMORROW WE'RE GOING TO MARK THIS AHEAD OF TIME AS EXHIBIT A TO EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE A PHYSICAL COPY OF IT. BUT ONCE THESE THINGS ARE EMAILED IN, I'M GOING TO ASK THE BOARD SECRETARY TO PUT A ONE ON THE SOMERSET COUNTY DOCUMENT AND A TWO ON THE STATEWIDE DOCUMENT AND THEN EMAIL THEM OUT TO THE BOARD AND ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WANTS TO GET A COPY. YOU CAN ASK THE BOARD SECRETARY FOR AN EMAIL OF IT, AND SHE CAN EMAIL IT OUT, MAKE IT A LOT EASIER. GO ON THE WEBSITE WITH THE REST OF THE LINK. YOU CAN POST IT IF THAT'S YES, ACTUALLY, IF THEY'RE MARKED AS EXHIBITS, THEY SHOULD BE POSTED POSTED ON THE WEBSITE. THAT MAKES IT VERY EASY. EVERYONE CAN GO RIGHT TO THE WEBSITE. GRAB IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CALL THE BOARD SECRETARY, WHICH I'M SURE SHE'S GLAD TO HEAR. OKAY, SO YOU'VE IDENTIFIED EXHIBIT A ONE AND A TWO. CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT? HE'S GONNA HE'S GONNA TESTIFY, APPARENTLY ON A TWO. HE'S NOT GOING TO TESTIFY ABOUT A ONE AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE, APPARENTLY BASICALLY WHATEVER HE PREPARED WAS BASED ON A TO TELL US ABOUT DIFFERENT COUNTIES AS WELL. WHAT SO YEAH, THIS PACKET IS RELEASED FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IN DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES, AND IT TRACKS ALL THE DATA THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF TREATMENT OUTCOMES, PEOPLE GOING TO TREATMENT ADMISSIONS WITHIN TREATMENT, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF SUBSTANCES THEY'RE UTILIZING WHEN THEY COME TO TREATMENT, AND ALSO THE UNMET DEMAND REPORTED THROUGHOUT THE STATE. AND ON A LOCAL LEVEL. SO HONEST STATE LEVEL LAST JUST AND I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU SAY UNMET DEMAND. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS PEOPLE THAT REPORTED THAT THEY NEEDED TREATMENT. IT ACTUALLY [02:45:03] SAYS HERE SO UNMET DEMAND THE DEFINITION NUMBER THREE UNMET DEMAND PORTION OF THE 2018 AND J HOUSEHOLD SURVEYS ESTIMATED ADULT POPULATION WHO DID NOT RECEIVE TREATMENT IN THE 12 MONTHS PRIOR TO THE INTERVIEW, BUT WHO FELT THEY NEEDED AND WANTED TREATMENT. TIMES OF 2021 ADULT RESIDENT POPULATION. SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT. SO HONEST, STATEWIDE LEVEL OF THIS DOCUMENT SHOWS THAT THERE WAS ROUGHLY 46,898 ADMISSIONS LAST YEAR INTO TREATMENT. OUT OF THE 40 OR SO ON A STATEWIDE LEVEL. IT WAS REPORTED THAT SO HOLD ON ONE SECOND ON THE WRONG DOCUMENT. ALRIGHT, SO 100 AND 26,000 PEOPLE REPORTED THAT THEY NEEDED TREATMENT LAST YEAR NOW YOU'VE GOT TO SLOW DOWN THE 46 8 98. NOW I HAVE TO CROSS IT OUT. APPARENTLY I APOLOGIZE. STATEWIDE LEVEL. WHAT IS THE TESTIMONY? YES. SO LAST YEAR, 126,000 PEOPLE REPORTED THAT THEY NEEDED TREATMENT THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY ROUGHLY 100 26,120 16 REPORTED TO WHO THAT THEY NEED TO TREATMENT. THE DEPARTMENT OF AND J HOUSEHOLD SURVEYS. SO THAT IS JUST THE REPORTED NUMBER. OKAY? THIS WAS 2021 CORRECT. OKAY SO 126 REPORTED THAT 126,000 PEOPLE REPORTED THAT THEY NEEDED SOME SORT OF TREATMENT LAST YEAR. OKAY, OKAY. OUT OF THE 126,000 PEOPLE ONLY 46,898 PEOPLE RECEIVED TREATMENT. SO IN TOTAL , THE UNMET DEMAND THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY IS 60.7. NOW THAT'S ON A STATE LEVEL AT A COUNTY LEVEL. LOCALLY WITHIN SOMERSET COUNTY. LET ME JUST PULL IT UP HERE AGAIN. THIS IS A TWO JUST TO THE RECORDS CLEAR, SAME DOCUMENT IN SOMERSET COUNTY LAST YEAR, 4262 PEOPLE REPORTED THAT THEY NEEDED TREATMENT. OUT OF THAT THAT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ONLY 997 PEOPLE ACTUALLY RECEIVED TREATMENT. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS 76.6% OF PEOPLE THAT REPORTED THAT THEY NEEDED TREATMENT LAST YEAR DID NOT RECEIVE TREATMENT. ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT THAT AS APPROXIMATELY 14% OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SEEKING TREATMENT WERE ABLE TO GET TREATMENT JUST 14% CORRECT. 24 RIGHT? 14. IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T SAY WHY. THE PEOPLE. THAT REPORTED TREATMENT DIDN'T RECEIVE TREATMENT. IT DOES NOT. WHY. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD. WHY IS THAT? WHY CAN'T PEOPLE GET TREATMENT? THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH TREATMENT RESOURCES THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY. OKAY? I CAN TALK ABOUT MERCER COUNTY AS WELL. DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT? UH, IN MERCER COUNTY? UM THE REPORTED NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT SAID THEY NEEDED TREATMENT WAS 13,809 PEOPLE. OUT OF THAT NUMBER ONLY 2261. PEOPLE RECEIVE TREATMENT. SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 83.6% OF PEOPLE WHO NEEDED TREATMENT DID NOT RECEIVE TREATMENT LAST YEAR IN MERCER COUNTY. 17% JUST TO REDEEM MYSELF. HERE YOU GO, OKAY? OKAY AND AGAIN THE REASON FOR THIS, AND HE SAID, IT'S A MATTER OF RESOURCES. CORRECT CORRECT. THERE'S JUST REALLY NOT ENOUGH RESOURCES TO TREAT THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE POPULATION AT THIS TIME, OKAY? AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THIS SUBSTANCE ABUSE EPIDEMIC IS LEFT UNTREATED? WHAT'S THE RESULT OF THAT PEOPLE WILL EVENTUALLY DIE. IT'S A FATAL PROGRESSIVE ILLNESS. ONE OF THE STATS THAT YOU REALLY RELATE TO ME, WHICH WAS VERY INTERESTING WAS THE OVERDOSE STATS AND I THINK YOU HAVE FIGURES ON THAT LAST YEAR ALONE. 120,000 PEOPLE DIED ACROSS THE COUNTRY OF FATAL OVERDOSES THAT WAS THE LARGEST EVER RECORDED NUMBER IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES THE YEAR BEFORE, SO THAT WAS A 25% INCREASE, ROUGHLY FROM 2020 TO 2021. IN 2020. THAT WAS ALSO THE HIGHEST REPORTED NUMBER BEFORE 2021 OF ROUGHLY 90,000 PEOPLE THAT DIED FROM FATAL OVERDOSES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF DEATH BETWEEN 18 TO 45 YEAR OLDS IS FROM A SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER. NOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NEED FOR THESE. OBVIOUSLY THE NUMBERS ARE PRETTY STRIKING. UM YOU SAID THERE WAS A LACK OF FACILITIES. THERE ARE SOME FACILITIES, THOUGH, CORRECT? YES CAN YOU DESCRIBE SOME OF THE FACILITIES IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA? THERE IS A CARRIER CLINIC, WHICH IS LOCATED IN SOMERSET COUNTY. THEY TREAT MORE MEDICAL COMPLEX SITUATIONS THAN OUR FACILITY WOULD TREAT. MORE LIMITED IN THE SCOPE SERVICES WE CAN PROVIDE, BUT THEY ARE ANOTHER TREATMENT RESOURCES, SOMERSET COUNTY MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP GOING ON [02:50:06] MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP, DON'T YOU? YES. WELCOME RECOUNT. CORRECT. THANK YOU. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE JUSTERS WITHIN SOMERSET COUNTY, PUREOPULAT PNIO, ERE'STH ROHLY 34UG000 PE5,LE.OP IN INMERSETSO COUYNT. THAT'SHE ONTI OSOMERSF COUETYNT. IFOU TAK YE, FOEXAMPLR ANDE, ERE'S THLYON ONEESIDEN RAL TEN CENR,TE WHICHS CLINIR WHIC, REALLCH YN'T TISHE SAMEODEL A MUSS , BUT R ALL FOTENTSINND PUR ASES, IPO ATLA SAY TT IFHA YOUOOK AT L POPUOUNTYNT WITH A IT'SLA L MEET UH, IHINK T 200.TLANTI AC COUNTCANY YOU T MEOKERRC COUNTY BAUSEEC IT'SYAL MENONED TTITHA AND IGHT N RTEX DROO DON'T HAVE ANDUMBERE FOR MS CER CERNTYOU HOWANY TR MTMENTEA FALITIESCIRE A IN RCERME COUNT YDO YOU. NOW OF K ANYREATME T NTCILITIFAES AND MCER CERNTY?OUI DO I DO..O THER SSE'H, ONEETOX. DERE ISWHHAT T SEEIED IOCPRINCEN N.TOE'RE W TREATNGNTME JUST TO BE CLREAWE'RE. TALKING ABO DETOXUT DEX SPECTOICALLYIF. OKAY THAIS RINCET PONTHAT'S. N MERC I ERUNTYCO. RRECTCO YES. MERCER UNTY? COS ANDYE WTHA OTHER DETOX FALITIESCI IMERCERN CNTYOU THAT YORE AWAU' OREF PNCETONRI ALOR HEALTHOSPITA HL, IINK ITHS THE THERERE ANOTH'S ERE. WE ONVEL UPLE. UM. OYKA I ASME PRISUETON BNCAVIORAEHL PRIN HHEPITALSOSALSO I, N TON.CE FROM FM MYRO EDGROM F AOUCHN . YTHINGAN EL IN MSECERER CNTY? AOU OTHERNY DEXTOACILIT FSIETHERE? RE BUT A I D'T HAVONTHOSE E OSETH NAMES. WE CANERTAIN CLY PVIDE TRO HEARDBOHAT T THAT ECIFICSP IONAT ATO THES UMBER N I KN WE'REOWOCUSIN FG ON RSHALLMA THATMERSR .ETHE CAR TER.RIHAT T 'S T ONLY HETOX FADELITYCI .RRECTCO A THERERENY ADD AIONALT ON CORREES? THECT IS NOREOKAY.T OK,AY THAT M AWARI'OF.E I WERESETSOOUNTY. C OKAY AND YOU PEAKIN S BRIEFGLYO THE T BOARENCEFF JUSTSUST J TTHEO DS CLEARHE DIF TRENCEFE PROPNTW CARERRI CNIC ALI THISND EDOSSE CAN U EXPLA THATIN. YE SO CAS.IER CRRNICLI CANREAT T UH,MPL MEDICEX SITUAALONS.TI DN'TID THE SPECO OF ACALTU MECALDI SERCES WVICANE ROVIDE P SEENS CRIER CARNIC ILIS PART OFHOSPITA ALTHEY C, PROVIANDE Y CARE RVICESSEWE CAN. T E PMARY CRIEAR SERCESVI. MANAANNLY PR OIDEOVEDICAT MNIO MENTGEONITOR MGIN, ANWE TORNIHEIR V TALSIT AS WE. ANYLLING OTHSIDE OUT THATF WOULDWEAVE TO H RER THEEFTO AM EVERENDIFACILIT .TY AND. JUSTO S NE KNOYO THEREWSS I A SCREEGHNGNIROCESS P F FACIE PETHLEOP TO CO INTOMEUR O TY. ITLI DONE'SY B A MEDAL A MESI. THEYILL BE WSKED A CAL QDISTIONNUEREAI IN RERDS TOGANY A MEDIC ALMPLICACOONSTI OR PSHIATRIYCC THESCEHEY AN TERSWLL A QUESTIE SONCLINIC, AL TM E MEDICAL TM WILEAMAKE AL REMMENDACOONTI IF THE AREER APOPRIATPR FOR OEUR FILITY,AC RISK BUERE ATHRE TOO HH OFIG OR A M FICAL CEDPLICATOMN LD REOUEFER T RA AL BAS UNIT.ED OKA Y.YCHIATPSC UNITRI. I'MBOUT T A OTGENTO TH IOPERATE NALIO SEEMONQUS SO ODGO BREAK IT. BREA AS ATURAL N PLACEOR A F WILLM IEAN MI THIN, K WE BECHEDUL SGIN THE MTINGEE HAVEE MTHON. SO WDOE HAVECHEDHEE BECAULEUSOU Y BIG A APPCATIONLI THA APPLEDSTOU HAV YE CELL AWERTO MONTNICHAT'S TARTINGSTEXT N H, WCH IHI PREDICT IT'S GOGIN TTAKEO NUMBE AOFR HEINGAR SESSI TIMESONS MANY A PELE IN OPRE, RIHET?GH THE'S YOU.G THIS ON E 24THTH. , WHG WLD DO OUORGANIRETIONZA H WILLICE HALF BN HOUR A. IULD WAWO TONT PUT GOLDEBISONN BECA WE JU CARRISTED FST,IR E OBVIUSSLY THOU ISIS GOING TOAKE A T MAJORY OF TIT TIMEHE ANTHEN WD CANE PUTHIS ON T AFRTEHAT. O TYKA OKAY, SOHAT'S W ? DIDTE YOUAY JAN SRY?UA HEARI24NGN THIS IATTER M IS 24THOONTINU C TO JAEDARYNU NOTIUTHOEED NOR FUR FERTH PUT WCEHOEVER W AMONGSTOU Y ATTH NOTE INIC THA OTHERT I SADIAILBOX M, I KAS YOUYEAH. HERW I ASK . UYOO T PLEE HER ATND TELL R ABOHE THAN.TH S I DONO GET'T YELLEATD K YOU. I JT WANTUSED TO ALSO I DID HE ONE AVESTIONQU BEFOR E WE'VEWE SCEININCE T STHA H ISME ISNA ON T APPLIHETION.CA KEN, RIGVI? AREHT YOULANNIN PG ON? HE PLISNINGAN ON BEG HERINE ? HE'SSOERE H? WASHE INCLUD O APPL CANT, RICLLY FREAOM PERNGECTIVESPECAUSE BE PURCLYHN THE CONACTTR TO B.HAE DIDN W WANT 'TERETH E A QUESTNYNSIOO STAN TNG TOOD BRSNG TRIS UP.HI UNDE WJUTEDANO, UH T, KINDF O TAND YRSR PLANOUHE'S. YING IBUBUT AGT N.AI WOODMTON MR BEFON'CASOMPANY CILL OP WATEER RE ERYONEVE TAKESWE DO. WEVE SOMSOME FE MALOR. YOU OW,KN HAVEO IMPR TE THEOVINUTES M PREVIHESOU MEENG,TIO SK YOU TBE QUIO WHILEET AS YOAS YOUU LEA, BECVESEAU TRE DO HA TO FIVESHNI T TALKEEDIPRSNG. UM, AHYE. EASEPL N THE I HAL AND AL VERYRE [02:55:04] AUTIFUBE NEWL ATRMIU ANDLSO A TEIA EVERYDY COMBOG OUTIN ENGAE,L OU YNOW, P KLICUB MENT IGES WTHA WE WAN T,WAYSAL AND IF ANODYYBANTS T W OLUNTEEVOR F BOARDORANDS COITTEESMMTHIS I, S ALL VONTEERSLUYOU. CANO IN T GHE TOSHIP.WNHAT W WSITE AEBND SPE NDUR TUEYOAYS ASDNDHURSDA T HERS ANDAYY OF THWEEK.E ORMAL F ANUNCEMENO ABOUTNTT. I I JUS TNT TO WAKEMA SE THATURVERYON E EERYONEEVVERYON E KNOWSEHAT T NG CAREIEDRI TTHAT DO E DATE ETH DE AND ATME ANDTI AT THETHRE NOTY'ONNA GECEIVE R ANMORE PY LICUB NOTIC THAT'E. SAT IWH SD. WELAIL YOUID NOT D NOTTO MAEDKENY NOT AE.IC TRE'SHE IT'SNAE ANY BREMO NICE.OT KAY. O JUST MAKG SUREIN I TEDANO GO O TOURN DO WE. YBSH.EA UH, IO, DO DWE [VI. MINUTES] APPL TE O CLOSEHIS T ATIONICN I IORMALNFAY W? NO APPRKO WE'L SMOVEL N O TTHEO AL OFOV MINUT FROM ESE ER 2D 20222NEETING M.M U COULD, YOUUH, , CAI MINUIO TO APNOVE THPRE MOVE ALL RHTIG, MR WMARTAL AND TDN MRSHE BLO ODDOWSKISAECOND S C I HAVANAE RO CALL,LLLEASE? P YES Y, .TTING. S MK AND ARATWH. UH THE DECBEREM 27TH MEENGTI HAS CANNYALEEN CA BELEDNC. WESO OT. WE CNOTANSE U TTHA SPO BEETH DECEMR 24THBEEETING MILL W HIS CO TINUATINTON AND JANUARY 20. YES. M SORRI'. THEYANUARY J REOR023 2 WILL BOURE GOLDTIGAON MEENGTI THE EN BUTEAH Y, PLICATAPN FORIO A SOIL VEMENTMOOR F PJECTRO THA THENUYSYO PROVED COUPL AE AND HIS TNE O ANDHIS T ONE, D T CELLHAOWER T IS ANCIPATETI TO BEDN THE O6TH. 2 BLOCKH.UT O YOUR EK FORWE JAARY,NU A INDM U A I YNL ARECIATPPEVERYBE YOD DIDNE HERE. 'SIT UHOU KNO Y WEW, 'TE DID WT KNOWN' IFE BABLEE O FILL T THEUORUM Q ANIT'S RD LLYEA TESTA ANT TOME EVER DEDATIONICAND I . INKTH HOPEYO SERVIOR THIS NGARYE I VERYBO EDY IS ING TOGO COINUENT TO SEE THRRVGHOUTOU THINRESTEIF O TIRHE TER. IMS THISK S A GR IT BOAEARD. ANDNE ME GOOSODHINGS T. UM WANT I TO THK YOU,ANR. M YEARURFO SVICEERHIS T . TOWHIPNS ALL YOUUYS G COINUENTO ENJO TY A YOU GLLSUY SO TEERENS ANDLANNER PS AS LL.WE NKHA Y SO MUOUCH FOR ALL T HAPP THAWOTOU DO YD HAVEAN A ATLIDAY . UMYSOU Y CANELL Y MELL YOU AANT. W ION'T N DD YH I WEA INAS THE MITARYIL CATAKEN IT. UM SO I CAN I HE MOTION TO ADURN THJOE MTINGEE IN TE GHDHAMOTION E. UM, TIMEHE IIST 10 0AND WE2 * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.